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I watched it too few days ago and I wondered if it is as bad as it looks in the video. I have been there a couple of times in the past before the pandemic and

I watched it too few days ago and I wondered if it is as bad as it looks in the video. I have been there a couple of times in the past before the pandemic and it did not look worst than any other big downtown in USA to me (another interesting topic for an European living in the USA btw), in the video… holly it looks bad. Is it that the video is made in a sensationalist way or is it as bad as it seems to be?

tticvs 3y ago
It's obviously biased because he goes to the worst areas and he only interviews "interesting" people. But it's pretty obvious he's not cherrypicking from weeks of footage across the whole city. It's really very bad in certain areas.
- melenaboija 3y ago
  But robberies in stores and bipping (seen in the next one he made) does not seem to be happening in bad areas, is that right? What he is showing does not seem to be a threat for personal safety to me but I think it definitely shows some cracks in the system.
  - throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
    I stayed in a hostel in SF a few years ago and this guy showed me video he shot of a crazy guy on the corner in some busy street in SF, pulls out a gun and starts firing at people. Next to him. I'd call that a threat to personal safety. I don't have any other second hand accounts of violence but I imagine there would be some between the gangs, police, homeless and residents. Frustrations boiling over leads eventually to assaults
  - tticvs 3y ago
    By "worst areas" I mean "areas badly affected by this problem" which is a decent % of the city.
goda90 3y ago
He mentions he's only been talking to people in one area (The Tenderloin) and says that some believe the police take it easy in that area so that crime congregates there and stays out of the richer neighborhoods.
- unfunco 3y ago
  Hamsterdam.
- melenaboija 3y ago
  And he talks about mass robberies in stores such as Louis Vuitton which I guess are not located in bad areas.
  - User23 3y ago
    This is because crime is caused by bad people not by bad real estate.
    - melenaboija 3y ago
      I don't know where I said it was caused by bad real estate, and if you understood so I did not mean to say it. But thanks for bringing the point though because I think real estate shows the huge inequality that exists in places like SF, it is interesting to listen to the testimonies from both videos and their thoughts about it.
codebeaker 3y ago
I haven't seen the documentary, but my anecdotal experience visiting SF annually since 2016 for work is that it's utterly dire. I live in northern europe, in Germany, so our bar is high, quality of life is good, but i'm no snowflake prude, around Market Street in San Francisco is simply disgraceful. I witnessed on every trip passers by being harassed sexually by mentally unstable, or drug abusing people. I was offered to buy a stolen gun in broad daylight a block over from the Twitter building. I saw a gang of people storm a hair salon on Market St. and attack the occupants, spilling out into a 10 person brawl on the street. I've seen people jumping turnstyles and being assaulted by police/security personnel. It's a really desperate situation.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- bcrosby95 3y ago
  Note that market street around the Twitter building has never been a great area of SF. I think part of the hope was that it would re-vitalize that part a bit. Moving around SF is weird because the difference from street to street can be huge.
  - foobazgt 3y ago
    I didn't live in SF, but I flew there several times a year for over a decade. Market Street definitely saw a huge decline over that period. By the end, coworkers were refusing to walk it anymore for safety reasons.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- melenaboija 3y ago
  > I live in northern europe, in Germany, so our bar is high, I think seeing western European countries, and more specifically northern ones, should make the Americans ask themselves if something is wrong here. And probably these should be deeper than "how is it possible this happens in the richest country in the world" that I have heard so many times.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
subsubzero 3y ago
I worked there for a better part of a decade and I have been to very rough places during their worst times, late 90's and early 2000's(east Oakland, east Palo Alto, and south central Los Angeles) and tenderloin in SF is on another level of dysfunction than any of those spots ever were. Its extremely dangerous and the open drug use is like no place I have ever seen anywhere in the US or the world for that matter. I was there early this year and due to the post pandemic office vacancies there are no more "normal" people there anymore, just homeless and drug addicts and an occasional city worker or two.
corytheboyd 3y ago
Not that this topic ever needs more anecdotes, but here is mine. The bad parts are extremely bad— like, apocalypse level bad. You obviously never go to them, but being a small city some destinations put you near them, or have you drive through them. It’s sad, and certainly feels way past the point of no return. I only lived in SF for about 12 years, but even that was enough time to see at least part of the change. At the time I moved there, you still avoided the TL, but the area around civic center at least didn’t feel like a war zone. Was never mugged, robbed, threatened, etc. You have to actively avoid people and places, and get lucky too I guess. Never lived in the rougher parts of town, but visited them. Never make eye contact with crazy people, strategically cross the street, enter shops, etc. Again though, you just don’t go to the bad parts, like any city, and it’s benign. At least it was before I left (not because of “the crime”, other unrelated reasons). So idk, yes it is as bad as people say, but also it isn’t at all. The news is about cherry-picking what gets clicks, and that’s rage bait.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > I only lived in SF for about 12 years And, honestly, the SF of 12 years ago was already greatly degraded compared to the SF a decade or so before then.
- SheinhardtWigCo 3y ago
  Exactly, just don’t go to Powell, Civic Center, 16th or 24th St BART stations, and just don’t visit the main shopping mall, and just don’t park your car on the street, and just don’t store your bicycle in your garage, and you’ll be fine.
- TMWNN 3y ago
  >The bad parts are extremely bad— like, apocalypse level bad. From a May 2023 article on the decline of the city <http://web.archive.org/web/20230510153958/https://www.curbed.com/2023/05/san-francisco-doom-loop.html http://web.archive.org/web/20230510153958/https://www.curbed...>: >A note to my fellow San Franciscians: I’m sorry. I know. There’s always some story in the East Coast press about how our city is dying. San Franciscians hate—HATE—these pieces. You’re a stooge and a traitor for writing one. When I set out reporting, I wanted to write a debunking-the-doom piece myself. Yet to live in San Francisco right now, to watch its streets, is to realize that no one will catch you if you fall. In the first three months of 2023, 200 San Franciscans OD’d, up 41 percent from last year. “It’s like a wasteland,” the guard said when I asked how San Francisco looked to him. “It’s like the only way to describe it. It’s like a video game — like made-up shit. Have you ever played Fallout?” >I shook my head. >“There’s this thing in the game called feral ghouls, and they’re like rotted. They’re like zombies.” There’s only so much pain a person can take before you disintegrate, grow paranoid, or turn numb. “I go home and play with my wife, and we’re like, ‘Ah, hahahaha, this is SF.’” I found it notable that no one in the Reddit discussion <https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/13dvrjs/san_francisco_doom_loop_what_its_like_to_live_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/13dvrjs/san_franci...> mentioned the Fallout comparison despite the fact that, well, this is Reddit. I think it hit too hard. >but being a small city some destinations put you near them Yes, this is something that people don't understand. The SF Bay area is as large as any other major metro area, but San Francisco is tiny, at 7 miles by 7 miles. More to the point, the place where most business happens and where most tourists go is right next to the Tenderloin. The only place I can think of in Manhattan that is kind of like this is the Upper East Side at 96th Street, and tourists just don't go there often (and Spanish Harlem isn't that bad, anyway). >I only lived in SF for about 12 years, but even that was enough time to see at least part of the change. At the time I moved there, you still avoided the TL, but the area around civic center at least didn’t feel like a war zone. >Was never mugged, robbed, threatened, etc. Same for me on all counts. But were I a woman my experience would surely have been different.
kstrauser 3y ago
On the other hand, I was at the other end of Market by the ferry building last week. It was pleasant and clean, and no one stole our car. We parked in SOMA last night for a concert, rode Muni with hundreds of normal people, and came back later to find our car in the same condition we left it in. Yes: avoid the TL at night. No: the city as a whole isn’t Mad Max with a guarantee that you’ll be assaulted and your car will be broken into.

tticvs 3y ago

It's obviously biased because he goes to the worst areas and he only interviews "interesting" people. But it's pretty obvious he's not cherrypicking from weeks of footage across the whole city. It's really very bad in certain areas.

melenaboija 3y ago
But robberies in stores and bipping (seen in the next one he made) does not seem to be happening in bad areas, is that right? What he is showing does not seem to be a threat for personal safety to me but I think it definitely shows some cracks in the system.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
  I stayed in a hostel in SF a few years ago and this guy showed me video he shot of a crazy guy on the corner in some busy street in SF, pulls out a gun and starts firing at people. Next to him. I'd call that a threat to personal safety. I don't have any other second hand accounts of violence but I imagine there would be some between the gangs, police, homeless and residents. Frustrations boiling over leads eventually to assaults
- tticvs 3y ago
  By "worst areas" I mean "areas badly affected by this problem" which is a decent % of the city.

goda90 3y ago

He mentions he's only been talking to people in one area (The Tenderloin) and says that some believe the police take it easy in that area so that crime congregates there and stays out of the richer neighborhoods.

unfunco 3y ago
Hamsterdam.
melenaboija 3y ago
And he talks about mass robberies in stores such as Louis Vuitton which I guess are not located in bad areas.
- User23 3y ago
  This is because crime is caused by bad people not by bad real estate.
  - melenaboija 3y ago
    I don't know where I said it was caused by bad real estate, and if you understood so I did not mean to say it. But thanks for bringing the point though because I think real estate shows the huge inequality that exists in places like SF, it is interesting to listen to the testimonies from both videos and their thoughts about it.

codebeaker 3y ago

I haven't seen the documentary, but my anecdotal experience visiting SF annually since 2016 for work is that it's utterly dire. I live in northern europe, in Germany, so our bar is high, quality of life is good, but i'm no snowflake prude, around Market Street in San Francisco is simply disgraceful. I witnessed on every trip passers by being harassed sexually by mentally unstable, or drug abusing people. I was offered to buy a stolen gun in broad daylight a block over from the Twitter building. I saw a gang of people storm a hair salon on Market St. and attack the occupants, spilling out into a 10 person brawl on the street. I've seen people jumping turnstyles and being assaulted by police/security personnel. It's a really desperate situation.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bcrosby95 3y ago
Note that market street around the Twitter building has never been a great area of SF. I think part of the hope was that it would re-vitalize that part a bit. Moving around SF is weird because the difference from street to street can be huge.
- foobazgt 3y ago
  I didn't live in SF, but I flew there several times a year for over a decade. Market Street definitely saw a huge decline over that period. By the end, coworkers were refusing to walk it anymore for safety reasons.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
melenaboija 3y ago
> I live in northern europe, in Germany, so our bar is high, I think seeing western European countries, and more specifically northern ones, should make the Americans ask themselves if something is wrong here. And probably these should be deeper than "how is it possible this happens in the richest country in the world" that I have heard so many times.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

subsubzero 3y ago

I worked there for a better part of a decade and I have been to very rough places during their worst times, late 90's and early 2000's(east Oakland, east Palo Alto, and south central Los Angeles) and tenderloin in SF is on another level of dysfunction than any of those spots ever were. Its extremely dangerous and the open drug use is like no place I have ever seen anywhere in the US or the world for that matter. I was there early this year and due to the post pandemic office vacancies there are no more "normal" people there anymore, just homeless and drug addicts and an occasional city worker or two.

corytheboyd 3y ago

Not that this topic ever needs more anecdotes, but here is mine. The bad parts are extremely bad— like, apocalypse level bad. You obviously never go to them, but being a small city some destinations put you near them, or have you drive through them. It’s sad, and certainly feels way past the point of no return. I only lived in SF for about 12 years, but even that was enough time to see at least part of the change. At the time I moved there, you still avoided the TL, but the area around civic center at least didn’t feel like a war zone. Was never mugged, robbed, threatened, etc. You have to actively avoid people and places, and get lucky too I guess. Never lived in the rougher parts of town, but visited them. Never make eye contact with crazy people, strategically cross the street, enter shops, etc. Again though, you just don’t go to the bad parts, like any city, and it’s benign. At least it was before I left (not because of “the crime”, other unrelated reasons). So idk, yes it is as bad as people say, but also it isn’t at all. The news is about cherry-picking what gets clicks, and that’s rage bait.

JohnFen 3y ago
> I only lived in SF for about 12 years And, honestly, the SF of 12 years ago was already greatly degraded compared to the SF a decade or so before then.
SheinhardtWigCo 3y ago
Exactly, just don’t go to Powell, Civic Center, 16th or 24th St BART stations, and just don’t visit the main shopping mall, and just don’t park your car on the street, and just don’t store your bicycle in your garage, and you’ll be fine.
TMWNN 3y ago
>The bad parts are extremely bad— like, apocalypse level bad. From a May 2023 article on the decline of the city <http://web.archive.org/web/20230510153958/https://www.curbed.com/2023/05/san-francisco-doom-loop.html http://web.archive.org/web/20230510153958/https://www.curbed...>: >A note to my fellow San Franciscians: I’m sorry. I know. There’s always some story in the East Coast press about how our city is dying. San Franciscians hate—HATE—these pieces. You’re a stooge and a traitor for writing one. When I set out reporting, I wanted to write a debunking-the-doom piece myself. Yet to live in San Francisco right now, to watch its streets, is to realize that no one will catch you if you fall. In the first three months of 2023, 200 San Franciscans OD’d, up 41 percent from last year. “It’s like a wasteland,” the guard said when I asked how San Francisco looked to him. “It’s like the only way to describe it. It’s like a video game — like made-up shit. Have you ever played Fallout?” >I shook my head. >“There’s this thing in the game called feral ghouls, and they’re like rotted. They’re like zombies.” There’s only so much pain a person can take before you disintegrate, grow paranoid, or turn numb. “I go home and play with my wife, and we’re like, ‘Ah, hahahaha, this is SF.’” I found it notable that no one in the Reddit discussion <https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/13dvrjs/san_francisco_doom_loop_what_its_like_to_live_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/13dvrjs/san_franci...> mentioned the Fallout comparison despite the fact that, well, this is Reddit. I think it hit too hard. >but being a small city some destinations put you near them Yes, this is something that people don't understand. The SF Bay area is as large as any other major metro area, but San Francisco is tiny, at 7 miles by 7 miles. More to the point, the place where most business happens and where most tourists go is right next to the Tenderloin. The only place I can think of in Manhattan that is kind of like this is the Upper East Side at 96th Street, and tourists just don't go there often (and Spanish Harlem isn't that bad, anyway). >I only lived in SF for about 12 years, but even that was enough time to see at least part of the change. At the time I moved there, you still avoided the TL, but the area around civic center at least didn’t feel like a war zone. >Was never mugged, robbed, threatened, etc. Same for me on all counts. But were I a woman my experience would surely have been different.

kstrauser 3y ago

On the other hand, I was at the other end of Market by the ferry building last week. It was pleasant and clean, and no one stole our car. We parked in SOMA last night for a concert, rode Muni with hundreds of normal people, and came back later to find our car in the same condition we left it in. Yes: avoid the TL at night. No: the city as a whole isn’t Mad Max with a guarantee that you’ll be assaulted and your car will be broken into.