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The 8008, F8 and SC/MP, while arguably important from a historical standpoint, never gained widespread commercial adoption in the way the 6502, Z80 or 8080 deri

The 8008, F8 and SC/MP, while arguably important from a historical standpoint, never gained widespread commercial adoption in the way the 6502, Z80 or 8080 derivatives (including the Z80 itself) did. The 6800 got some popularity in embedded applications, but was quickly superseded by the 6809 which managed to stay relevant all the way up to the late 90s. A glaring omission in this list is the Intel MCS-51 architecture, which - despite being horrible to program for in this day and age - still powers billions of devices worldwide, with 8051 derivatives often being embedded as a housekeeping core into all sorts of specialized ASICs and 8051-compatible microcontrollers being the staple of cheap electronics. It was never meant to compete with general purpose processors such as the Z80, and its awkwardly limited instruction set reflects that, but it still managed to become the de facto CPU architecture for monitors, power tools, RGB lighting, SD cards and whatnot.

kjs3 3y ago
The 6809 was a relative bit player; nifty chip but too late in the 8-bit market cycle to get nearly the traction or ship remotely the numbers its competitors did. By the time it hit the market, if needed the uptick in performance/features, you usually went to one of the 16-bit chips. If you're including 'derivatives', then the 68hc11 and related (6800 with extra stuff) were/are wildly popular in the embedded space and are still today being produced by NXP. You can buy them from stock at Digikey. The 6809 never superseded the 6800 at anything in the market other than being cool. And then the 68000 ate whatever market it might have had left. Agreed on the 8051. There's probably a dozen within 20' of you right now.
klelatti 3y ago
Hi, Author here. Apologies, I should have made it clear that this was intended to be a short list of microprocessors only, mostly to leave room for a follow up on microcontrollers like the 8051. Completely agree that the 8051 deserves a place on any list of important 1970s architectures. If anyone is interested in the results of the poll which looks like a dead heat between the 6800/9 and Z80, then the winner was Motorola. So I'm now deep in research on the 6800, hopefully to result in a post in the near future.
- jhallenworld 3y ago
  On the 6800/6809: don't forget to look at the Fairlight CMI and the Qasar M8 developed by Tony Furse: the sampling synthesizer that was the sound of the 80s. This past summer, Tony has been retrieving his 8-inch Motorola Exorciser floppies. He encouraged me to work on my Motorola Exorciser emulator- it now emulates a 6809 version of the Exorciser: https://github.com/jhallen/exorsim https://github.com/jhallen/exorsim (check out the long discussions in the issues...) "Blue Monday" on QasarBeach Fairlight CMI emulator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPXqM7qrkfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPXqM7qrkfc
  - swagempire 3y ago
    Fairlight is great-- DX7 though was really the sound of the 80s...
    - jhallenworld 3y ago
      I was trying to find which CPU was used for the DX7.. didn't find it, but did find that Ken Sherriff reverse engineered the sound chips: https://www.righto.com/2021/11/reverse-engineering-yamaha-dx7.html https://www.righto.com/2021/11/reverse-engineering-yamaha-dx... Well I found the schematics: it uses a 6805 and a 6303! http://www.midimanuals.com/manuals/yamaha/dx7/schematics/yamaha_dx7_schematics_rvgm.pdf http://www.midimanuals.com/manuals/yamaha/dx7/schematics/yam...
      - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
        Ha. I have a love-hate relationship with the MC6805. On the one hand, I built a lot of devices based on the 68HC05 series. On the other, having to implement a 16-bit division routine on one was what made me swear off assembly language for good.
    - diydsp 3y ago
      it would be reductive to chalk up the sound of the 80s to any one synth. Especially when the Fairlight was responsible for a number of iconic songs: http://ghservices.com/gregh/fairligh/topsong/ http://ghservices.com/gregh/fairligh/topsong/ This is a good overview of key 80s gear, including the E-Mu, Linn Drum, DX7, Fairlight, Mirage, etc. https://www.musicradar.com/news/10-synths-that-defined-the-80s https://www.musicradar.com/news/10-synths-that-defined-the-8...
dfawcus 3y ago
Maybe it is region dependent? The Z80 was still being used in embedded designs in the 90s. One company I worked at was still supporting Z80 systems and s/w at least until around '94. Possibly later, as I didn't work on those. In the UK, I never saw a 6809 used in embedded designs (late 80s - mid 90s), I did see plenty of Z80s and 8051 derivatives. However by that period (late 80s on) a lot of those embedded designs were using NEC V20/V30, as they made for easier systems to program than plain 8bit systems; plus the price range of the systems I had experience with allowed it.
- gallier2 3y ago
  Motorola's embedded cpu's had strange numbers that would make it difficult to recognize to which cpu family it belonged. 68705 were 6800 derived, 68302 were 68000 derived. As for the 6809 it l ooks like that there were no embedded derivatives of it. 68HC16 seems to be a 16 bit extended 6800 using a similar technic as 65816 to extend the 6502.
- gallier2 3y ago
  NEC V20/V30 not that much but 80186 and all their specialized embedded variants from Intel (80186EA/EB/EC) and AMD (Am186EM) were extremely appreciated as it allowed to use normal MS-DOS compilers and software. Am186EM we loved that one. 100 pin PQFP with unmultiplexed bus, CMOS up to 40Mhz, including UART, SPI etc.
  - GeorgeTirebiter 3y ago
    Yes, AM186EM was doubleplus good. I used it in an early interface between a Kodak DC-20 camera (early digital) and IrDA at high-speed (1 Mb/s in those days). Also liked the V20/V30 too, built a PC card comm controller with those. You are correct, it was normal to use MS-DOS compilers, although I did have to get a special-purpose debugger (code; interface was uart) for the '186. With those kinds of products, it's 'annoying' that Intel sort of gave away the embedded space. (agree: 8051 is high up there in the 'microcontroller' space.)
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  My first commercial embedded design used a 6809. That was also the last time I ever saw one used in the embedded space! As fun as the 68HC09 was, the 68HC05 and 68HC11 were better choices.
microtherion 3y ago
As an example of today's continued presence of the 8051, there's the CH559 family, which adds USB interfaces to the 8051: https://www.wch-ic.com/products/CH559.html https://www.wch-ic.com/products/CH559.html

kjs3 3y ago

The 6809 was a relative bit player; nifty chip but too late in the 8-bit market cycle to get nearly the traction or ship remotely the numbers its competitors did. By the time it hit the market, if needed the uptick in performance/features, you usually went to one of the 16-bit chips. If you're including 'derivatives', then the 68hc11 and related (6800 with extra stuff) were/are wildly popular in the embedded space and are still today being produced by NXP. You can buy them from stock at Digikey. The 6809 never superseded the 6800 at anything in the market other than being cool. And then the 68000 ate whatever market it might have had left. Agreed on the 8051. There's probably a dozen within 20' of you right now.

klelatti 3y ago

Hi, Author here. Apologies, I should have made it clear that this was intended to be a short list of microprocessors only, mostly to leave room for a follow up on microcontrollers like the 8051. Completely agree that the 8051 deserves a place on any list of important 1970s architectures. If anyone is interested in the results of the poll which looks like a dead heat between the 6800/9 and Z80, then the winner was Motorola. So I'm now deep in research on the 6800, hopefully to result in a post in the near future.

jhallenworld 3y ago
On the 6800/6809: don't forget to look at the Fairlight CMI and the Qasar M8 developed by Tony Furse: the sampling synthesizer that was the sound of the 80s. This past summer, Tony has been retrieving his 8-inch Motorola Exorciser floppies. He encouraged me to work on my Motorola Exorciser emulator- it now emulates a 6809 version of the Exorciser: https://github.com/jhallen/exorsim https://github.com/jhallen/exorsim (check out the long discussions in the issues...) "Blue Monday" on QasarBeach Fairlight CMI emulator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPXqM7qrkfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPXqM7qrkfc
- swagempire 3y ago
  Fairlight is great-- DX7 though was really the sound of the 80s...
  - jhallenworld 3y ago
    I was trying to find which CPU was used for the DX7.. didn't find it, but did find that Ken Sherriff reverse engineered the sound chips: https://www.righto.com/2021/11/reverse-engineering-yamaha-dx7.html https://www.righto.com/2021/11/reverse-engineering-yamaha-dx... Well I found the schematics: it uses a 6805 and a 6303! http://www.midimanuals.com/manuals/yamaha/dx7/schematics/yamaha_dx7_schematics_rvgm.pdf http://www.midimanuals.com/manuals/yamaha/dx7/schematics/yam...
    - HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
      Ha. I have a love-hate relationship with the MC6805. On the one hand, I built a lot of devices based on the 68HC05 series. On the other, having to implement a 16-bit division routine on one was what made me swear off assembly language for good.
  - diydsp 3y ago
    it would be reductive to chalk up the sound of the 80s to any one synth. Especially when the Fairlight was responsible for a number of iconic songs: http://ghservices.com/gregh/fairligh/topsong/ http://ghservices.com/gregh/fairligh/topsong/ This is a good overview of key 80s gear, including the E-Mu, Linn Drum, DX7, Fairlight, Mirage, etc. https://www.musicradar.com/news/10-synths-that-defined-the-80s https://www.musicradar.com/news/10-synths-that-defined-the-8...

dfawcus 3y ago

Maybe it is region dependent? The Z80 was still being used in embedded designs in the 90s. One company I worked at was still supporting Z80 systems and s/w at least until around '94. Possibly later, as I didn't work on those. In the UK, I never saw a 6809 used in embedded designs (late 80s - mid 90s), I did see plenty of Z80s and 8051 derivatives. However by that period (late 80s on) a lot of those embedded designs were using NEC V20/V30, as they made for easier systems to program than plain 8bit systems; plus the price range of the systems I had experience with allowed it.

gallier2 3y ago
Motorola's embedded cpu's had strange numbers that would make it difficult to recognize to which cpu family it belonged. 68705 were 6800 derived, 68302 were 68000 derived. As for the 6809 it l ooks like that there were no embedded derivatives of it. 68HC16 seems to be a 16 bit extended 6800 using a similar technic as 65816 to extend the 6502.
gallier2 3y ago
NEC V20/V30 not that much but 80186 and all their specialized embedded variants from Intel (80186EA/EB/EC) and AMD (Am186EM) were extremely appreciated as it allowed to use normal MS-DOS compilers and software. Am186EM we loved that one. 100 pin PQFP with unmultiplexed bus, CMOS up to 40Mhz, including UART, SPI etc.
- GeorgeTirebiter 3y ago
  Yes, AM186EM was doubleplus good. I used it in an early interface between a Kodak DC-20 camera (early digital) and IrDA at high-speed (1 Mb/s in those days). Also liked the V20/V30 too, built a PC card comm controller with those. You are correct, it was normal to use MS-DOS compilers, although I did have to get a special-purpose debugger (code; interface was uart) for the '186. With those kinds of products, it's 'annoying' that Intel sort of gave away the embedded space. (agree: 8051 is high up there in the 'microcontroller' space.)
HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
My first commercial embedded design used a 6809. That was also the last time I ever saw one used in the embedded space! As fun as the 68HC09 was, the 68HC05 and 68HC11 were better choices.

microtherion 3y ago

As an example of today's continued presence of the 8051, there's the CH559 family, which adds USB interfaces to the 8051: https://www.wch-ic.com/products/CH559.html https://www.wch-ic.com/products/CH559.html