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>Rust was far from perfect when it started seeing adoption by pragmatists Isn't Rust still a niche programming language? When compared to C, C++, C#, Javascrip

>Rust was far from perfect when it started seeing adoption by pragmatists Isn't Rust still a niche programming language? When compared to C, C++, C#, Javascript, Java, Python?

resonious 3y ago
I think in the grand scheme of things, it probably is. But it seems to have a momentum behind it that I can't quite see in, say, D or F#. Rust's popularity ratings in Stack Overflow's annual survey are pretty impressive https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-admired-and-desired-programming-scripting-and-markup-languages https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-admired-and-de...
ppseafield 3y ago
For JavaScript there's been a sharp increase in the amount of tooling that is written (or rewritten) in Rust: Turbopack, SWC, Vite's upcoming rewrite of roll-up. It doesn't seem like it is competing with JavaScript for writing web applications, but the tooling is definitely seeing more adoption of Rust.
- nindalf 3y ago
  In general Rust is great for writing developer tooling. You need low latency, high throughput, low memory footprint while being stable enough that it doesn’t crash much. Projects like Turbopack, Ruff (Python linter), Biome have all had some success and may continue to.
weinzierl 3y ago
It certainly is and if alone because the corpus of all Rust software is minuscule compared to that of other mainstream languages. With Rust being in the kernel of both the most mainstream operating systems and it gaining traction in the embedded world it would require a catastrophe of gigantic dimensions to bring that tanker off course from becoming mainstream. It will take time of course, but that is no difference from other contemporary mainstream languages. I remember that Guido van Rossum being asked what he'd consider Python's breakthrough and he answered that it had none, that it just grew slowly and steadily over a long time. Now, things have been set in motion for Rust, we will see where it leads.
- germandiago 3y ago
  I think Rust will remain a niche language because its main benefits compared to its learning curve are high. Also, Modern C++ is reasonably safe for most uses, almost safe, and things like Hylo language are IMHO just a better model than Rust-borrow-everything, which is basically viral at the API level and hard to manage compared to mutable value semantics.
  - weinzierl 3y ago
    This is a really good point and I agree that this is challenge for Rust. The counterpoint I have to offer is that the learning curve is reasonable flat when you are coming from C/C++ and that that is a significant enough target group to pull Rust trough until its new ideas become mainstream. I still remember when object oriented programming came around and that many programmers found it quite alien. A notion that is hardly conceivable today. I hope that it will be similar with Rust.
    - germandiago 3y ago
      Why go through all the trouble when you can do this: https://www.hylo-lang.org/ https://www.hylo-lang.org/ and not spend a second thinking of lifetimes? No, copies will not be issued unless necessary. Or why not keep exploring this idea as well? More research-oriented than the first one right now, though, so take it with a grain of salt: https://vale.dev/ https://vale.dev/ Look at "generational references". I find the first solution for Hylo as the correct mainstream one and the one in Vale as promising, though not sure where it will lead or if it can keep up to its promises. Both remove from you a high cognitive overload and keep memory safety intact without a GC.
  - J_Shelby_J 3y ago
    What learning curve? Between the borrow checker, copilot, and gpt it’s not really hard to know when to use &. I’ve been rewriting my python personal project in rust the past month and it’s going much quicker than I expected. And with Dioxus I’ll be able to distribute a full multi platform gui app at 10mb vs python + JS and all the fun that comes with that.

>Rust was far from perfect when it started seeing adoption by pragmatists Isn't Rust still a niche programming language? When compared to C, C++, C#, Javascript, Java, Python?

resonious 3y ago

I think in the grand scheme of things, it probably is. But it seems to have a momentum behind it that I can't quite see in, say, D or F#. Rust's popularity ratings in Stack Overflow's annual survey are pretty impressive https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-admired-and-desired-programming-scripting-and-markup-languages https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#section-admired-and-de...

ppseafield 3y ago

For JavaScript there's been a sharp increase in the amount of tooling that is written (or rewritten) in Rust: Turbopack, SWC, Vite's upcoming rewrite of roll-up. It doesn't seem like it is competing with JavaScript for writing web applications, but the tooling is definitely seeing more adoption of Rust.

nindalf 3y ago
In general Rust is great for writing developer tooling. You need low latency, high throughput, low memory footprint while being stable enough that it doesn’t crash much. Projects like Turbopack, Ruff (Python linter), Biome have all had some success and may continue to.

weinzierl 3y ago

It certainly is and if alone because the corpus of all Rust software is minuscule compared to that of other mainstream languages. With Rust being in the kernel of both the most mainstream operating systems and it gaining traction in the embedded world it would require a catastrophe of gigantic dimensions to bring that tanker off course from becoming mainstream. It will take time of course, but that is no difference from other contemporary mainstream languages. I remember that Guido van Rossum being asked what he'd consider Python's breakthrough and he answered that it had none, that it just grew slowly and steadily over a long time. Now, things have been set in motion for Rust, we will see where it leads.

germandiago 3y ago
I think Rust will remain a niche language because its main benefits compared to its learning curve are high. Also, Modern C++ is reasonably safe for most uses, almost safe, and things like Hylo language are IMHO just a better model than Rust-borrow-everything, which is basically viral at the API level and hard to manage compared to mutable value semantics.
- weinzierl 3y ago
  This is a really good point and I agree that this is challenge for Rust. The counterpoint I have to offer is that the learning curve is reasonable flat when you are coming from C/C++ and that that is a significant enough target group to pull Rust trough until its new ideas become mainstream. I still remember when object oriented programming came around and that many programmers found it quite alien. A notion that is hardly conceivable today. I hope that it will be similar with Rust.
  - germandiago 3y ago
    Why go through all the trouble when you can do this: https://www.hylo-lang.org/ https://www.hylo-lang.org/ and not spend a second thinking of lifetimes? No, copies will not be issued unless necessary. Or why not keep exploring this idea as well? More research-oriented than the first one right now, though, so take it with a grain of salt: https://vale.dev/ https://vale.dev/ Look at "generational references". I find the first solution for Hylo as the correct mainstream one and the one in Vale as promising, though not sure where it will lead or if it can keep up to its promises. Both remove from you a high cognitive overload and keep memory safety intact without a GC.
- J_Shelby_J 3y ago
  What learning curve? Between the borrow checker, copilot, and gpt it’s not really hard to know when to use &. I’ve been rewriting my python personal project in rust the past month and it’s going much quicker than I expected. And with Dioxus I’ll be able to distribute a full multi platform gui app at 10mb vs python + JS and all the fun that comes with that.