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TÜV vehicle report 2024 – Tesla Model 3, most issues (German)
- saiya-jin 3y agoI wonder if they ever consider moving side lights into steering wheel that happened with newest revision of Model 3, so their location keeps changing if you turn steering wheel. Colleague has it and he hates it with passion, I was even surprised this could pass european homologisation since its obvious security risk.
- dtx1 3y agoThose rules are only there to keep new car companies from becoming competition to the existing car industry. Once you are big enough, they don't really apply. edit: Downvote me all you like but just look at what for example VW did in the emissions scandal. Not like anyone went to jail for that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
- dumbo-octopus 3y agoGiven there was a recall, a $1B fine, and a judgement that VW must refund customers the full cost of the car, they clearly do apply. Saying people must be imprisoned is moving the goalposts. Oh, and execs quite literally did go to prison: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-southkorea-idUSKBN14Q0VR/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-southkorea-idU....
- dtx1 3y agoThere is a huge difference in how this was handled in germany vs everywhere else.
- dumbo-octopus 3y agoElaborate? Germany issued recalls and is forcing VW to pay back full price of the car, in response to USA issuing rebates larger than what Germany originally did, and South Korea sent people to prison. It looks like everywhere punished them.
- dtx1 3y agoEveryone that has been convicted has been convicted to probation for some minor or major fines. People don't get the full price back but can sue* to get the car bought back at a reduced value depending on the age and kilometers driven. * there has been some work to get something similar to a class action law suit against VW going but it's hardly the same severity or consumer protection like in the US.
- dumbo-octopus 3y agoJust because EU has weaker consumer protection in areas it actually matters than USA (preferring performative legislation such as GDPR, but I digress) doesn't mean the rules don't apply. They just don't apply to the severity you personally think is fit.
- thebruce87m 3y agoI’m hoping the EU forces them to change this before I’m shopping for another vehicle. Or everyone else sorts out the charging network. Either works for me.
- VBprogrammer 3y agoWhen you say "side lights" you mean the indicators or what an American might call "blinkers"? There does seem to be a lot of innovation for innovations sake at Tesla. Like putting in a yoke style steering wheel but not actually going the whole hog to make the turning response dynamic. Or moving critical features into the on screen menus.
- dumbo-octopus 3y agoIt's innovation for the sake of cost cutting, nothing else. Putting buttons on a steering wheel isn't innovative in any way (or at least it hasn't been for the last 20+ years), but it is cheap.
- mavhc 3y agoThat's why Tesla make a profit on their EVs, unlike most companies
- dumbo-octopus 3y agoNothing quite like defending a company selling trash by saying "but hey, at least they're profitable!".
- bryanlarsen 3y agoIf you want the world to transition to EV's and away from fossil fueled vehicles, cost reductions are necessary.
- dumbo-octopus 3y agoI don't have particular interest in that. But I suppose having access to poorly executed examples of such is important to the folks that do. In the same way having access to Shein is important to folks that think the world needs more environmentally friendly fashion. I'll keep using old car models that don't require child laborers removing several tons of material from the earth to satiate my personal environmental sanctimoniousness.
- asylteltine 3y agoTesla makes low quality cars for premium prices
- mensetmanusman 3y agoWhen compared to ICE, yes.
- patall 3y agoI mean they point out the issue quite clearly. The breaks are used less which leads to them failing.
- asylteltine 3y agoCompared to any car. The f-150 lighting (not that I would ever buy a pickup truck) is less expensive and higher quality than the cybertruck. Once companies that actually know how to make cars fully invest into electric, small time players like Tesla and rivian will be in trouble.
- kreetx 3y agoActually know as in.. panel gaps?
- asylteltine 3y agoDelivery, quality control, panel gaps, paint, quality interiors, mass scale production, etc.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoThey don't know electronics though, as per CT beating them to 48V after 30 years of feet dragging.
- Lutzb 3y agoThere is something weird in this chart. Clicking on the individual statistics ("Tesla Model 3") shows that it has excellent stats. https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/autokatalog/marken-modelle/tesla/model-3/?filter=NONE&sort=NAME_ASC https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/autokatalog/marken-mod... Ah, okay confusing. The original link is about quality issues. The individual statistics are about breakdown statistics. So quality wise, checked by the TÜV (prerequisite for operating a vehicle in Germany) - not good. Breakdown statistics, tracked by the ADAC (largest automotive club in Germany) - excellent.
- tommek4077 3y agoIt is weird for you to see different things in two totally different statistics? Hauptuntersuchung != Pannenstatistik. The first checks whether it is safe to drive with this specific car on German streets. The second is about how often the ADAC had to help people whose cars broke down.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- fundatus 3y agoAccidents/breakdowns per 1.000 cars is obviously not the same thing as number of failed inspections. Also: All new cars in that price range have excellent stats in the statistic you mentioned.
- vardump 3y agoI was pretty shocked Toyota RAV4 model year 2020 is about 12 times more likely to break down than a Tesla Model 3. And 21x more for same comparison with model year 2019! So not all cars have excellent statistics.
- mg 3y agoWhen you click on the name, you get the "Pannenstatistik". Which sounds like it is how many cars insured by ADAC had a problem on the road. The chart on the "TÜV-Report" seems to be what percentage of cars turned out to have a problem when routinely checked in a garage.
- ramboldio 3y agoTL;DR 15% of Model 3's fail the mandatory audit after 2 years due to 'considerable defects'.
- mg 3y agoAnd the average across all 2-3 year old cars is 5%. It does not tall us much unless we would also get some information on how expensive it is to fix the problem. A 5% problem rate can be worse than a 15% rate if the cars in the 5% category have issues that are more than 3x more expensive to fix.
- rasz 3y agoThey fail TÜV. You fail TÜV if you polish your headlight glass, or mount replacement panel/bumper/hitch without special certificate.
- tbarbugli 3y agoI wonder how biased TUV is in this report. I guess I will never know because I don't read german. It does sound odd to see Tesla at the top in a market they share with: Skoda, Logan, Citroen, Renault, Seat, Fiat, ...
- mr_inspector 3y agoI would doubt this report is biased. It's an aggregation of mandatory audits that cars have to go through every 3/2 years in Germany.
- sottol 3y agoYou could maybe say that German cars are are built taking the German inspections into account, I doubt it's high on Tesla's list of concerns (both in terms of being a US company and market size, for now). The inspection is very rigorous, btw.
- avar 3y agoThe EV-specific failure they cite first is that they're finding EV's have reduced braking performance, basically because people are relying on regenerative braking to the point where their brake pads are rusting apart. Usually this sort of thing only happens to the handbrake, e.g. to drivers of vehicles with an automatic transmission that place a lot of faith in the performance of their transmission's parking pawl. If this sounds weird you probably haven't driven in Germany. I love driving there, but if there's one country where I'd buy that a substantial number of drivers are OCD enough to have trained themselves to literally never press the brake pedal, it's the Germans.
- ZeroGravitas 3y agoI read this via Firefox translate, and noticed that one of the numbers changed, from 5.7% to 55.7% which is interesting.