4 ms·

I mean look I have to sympathise with Google here. They've no doubt had the entire combined wisdom of Google looking at this problem and clearly there is just n

I mean look I have to sympathise with Google here. They've no doubt had the entire combined wisdom of Google looking at this problem and clearly there is just no way for human beings to comprehend what the `Accept-Language` header does. /s because, you know.

tambourine_man 3y ago
Maybe if we ever reach AGI I can ask it kindly to respect my checkboxes.
account42 3y ago
It's absurd how they keep finding new ways to make this worse. They have ignored `Accept-Language: en` for a long time but used to at least have a link to switch to the english version. Then that link stopped appearing on search result pages and now it doesn't even consistently show up on the home page. Now it seems they don't even fully respect the account language wile logged in. WTF. While on vacation google decided to switch me to chinese even though I was logged in with an account that was set to english for decades on a browser that didn't change. The only way to change that back is to go to your account settings, and all the links leading there are ... in chinese. Even once back home this language change persisted. At no point did Google ever get an `Accept-Language: zh*` from me or any other indication that I wanted to switch languages besides the IP I'm connecting from which means fuck all.
- tambourine_man 3y ago
  My guess is it's a mixture of malice (I know this person said it doesn't want X, but maybe we can sell them X in this particular situation, so just go for it anyways) and pure simple incompetence and lack of communication in a large enough org
  - stephenr 3y ago
    > pure simple incompetence Hanlon's razor strikes again. The other day someone here (ostensibly a site for tech people) argued that the `Accept` header is useless, we can all just put random query string parameters or extensions in the URL to tell the server what content type we expect back, so I wouldn't be surprised if Google developers simply fail to see the point of the Accept-Language header.
dev_slash_null 3y ago
Except, in non English speaking counties, the vast majority of people do not change the Accept-Language header (through various browser/OS mechanisms), and receive default results. But then experiments show that they are more likely to interact with pages when shown in the languages Google thinks you actually use. If you go to myaccount.google.com/language , you can remove languages you don't actually speak, or turn off automatically adding languages altogether. It doesn't always work for everything, but it's a good signal. I agree there should be a way to force this better, but there's a bunch of work being done on it. You can add a hl=en parameter to the URL, and most Google apps will respect it.
- stephenr 3y ago
  I've heard this excuse before, and I don't buy it. I live in a non-English speaking country. The vast majority of people use their device in the local language, and for any browser to see the OS is set to - let's say, Thai - and then just proceed to send accept-language: en is just absurd. The other possibility is that these people who can not understand English, somehow manage to use a device set to English language on a daily basis. Also, absurd.
  - dev_slash_null 3y ago
    Unfortunately, thats just not true. Accept-Lanuage is set to English most of the time, even for people in non-enlish speaking counties. It's not that they cannot use English, it's that experiments show that users are more likely to interact with content that is in their predicted language, even when Accept-Language is set to English.
    - stephenr 3y ago
      > Accept-Lanuage is set to English most of the time, even for people in non-enlish speaking counties. Unless you can point to some kind of evidence that shows Accept-Language is set to English regardless of the host OS' language/region setting, there's zero reason to believe this claim. > It's not that they cannot use English Right, the entirety of non-english speaking, internet-using humans are able to read English, it's just a bunch of them choose not to, but only when it comes to using a webpage? Is that what you're suggesting? Edit: I just did some very quick testing of the theory that browsers will send the "wrong" Accept-Language header. * Safari on macOS with preferred OS language set to English (Australian) sends `en-AU,en;q=0.9` * Safari on macOS with preferred OS language set to Thai (and second pref of English) sends `th-TH,th;q=0.9` * Chrome on macOS with preferred OS language set to English (Australian) for some reason sends `en-GB,en-US;q=0.9,en;q=0.8` * Chrome on macOS with preferred OS language set to Thai (and second pref of English) sends `th-TH,th;q=0.9` * Edge on Windows 11 with preferred OS language set to Thai (and second pref of English) sends `th,en;q=0.9,en-GB;q=0.8,en-US;q=0.7` * Chrome on Windows 11 with preferred OS language set to Thai (and second pref of English) sends `th-TH,th;q=0.9` Firefox is the one that can get it wrong, sometimes: in the macOS VM, I had already downloaded Firefox before setting the OS language to Thai, and the downloaded versions set a browser preferred language which doesn't change based on the OS language (the default is US English). But when I downloaded Firefox using Edge in the Win11 VM, the language was already set to Thai, so I got a "Thai preferred" download link when I typed "Firefox" in the search bar, and thus the language string it sends is not surprising: `th,en-US;q=0.7,en;q=0.3` So, again: without some evidence to show that somehow people who have no understanding of English, are using their computers or phones or tablets in English, I'm calling bullshit on this repeated claim that "non english user's browsers send requests for English language content".

tambourine_man 3y ago

Maybe if we ever reach AGI I can ask it kindly to respect my checkboxes.

account42 3y ago

It's absurd how they keep finding new ways to make this worse. They have ignored `Accept-Language: en` for a long time but used to at least have a link to switch to the english version. Then that link stopped appearing on search result pages and now it doesn't even consistently show up on the home page. Now it seems they don't even fully respect the account language wile logged in. WTF. While on vacation google decided to switch me to chinese even though I was logged in with an account that was set to english for decades on a browser that didn't change. The only way to change that back is to go to your account settings, and all the links leading there are ... in chinese. Even once back home this language change persisted. At no point did Google ever get an `Accept-Language: zh*` from me or any other indication that I wanted to switch languages besides the IP I'm connecting from which means fuck all.

tambourine_man 3y ago
My guess is it's a mixture of malice (I know this person said it doesn't want X, but maybe we can sell them X in this particular situation, so just go for it anyways) and pure simple incompetence and lack of communication in a large enough org
- stephenr 3y ago
  > pure simple incompetence Hanlon's razor strikes again. The other day someone here (ostensibly a site for tech people) argued that the `Accept` header is useless, we can all just put random query string parameters or extensions in the URL to tell the server what content type we expect back, so I wouldn't be surprised if Google developers simply fail to see the point of the Accept-Language header.

dev_slash_null 3y ago

Except, in non English speaking counties, the vast majority of people do not change the Accept-Language header (through various browser/OS mechanisms), and receive default results. But then experiments show that they are more likely to interact with pages when shown in the languages Google thinks you actually use. If you go to myaccount.google.com/language , you can remove languages you don't actually speak, or turn off automatically adding languages altogether. It doesn't always work for everything, but it's a good signal. I agree there should be a way to force this better, but there's a bunch of work being done on it. You can add a hl=en parameter to the URL, and most Google apps will respect it.

stephenr 3y ago
I've heard this excuse before, and I don't buy it. I live in a non-English speaking country. The vast majority of people use their device in the local language, and for any browser to see the OS is set to - let's say, Thai - and then just proceed to send accept-language: en is just absurd. The other possibility is that these people who can not understand English, somehow manage to use a device set to English language on a daily basis. Also, absurd.
- dev_slash_null 3y ago
  Unfortunately, thats just not true. Accept-Lanuage is set to English most of the time, even for people in non-enlish speaking counties. It's not that they cannot use English, it's that experiments show that users are more likely to interact with content that is in their predicted language, even when Accept-Language is set to English.
  - stephenr 3y ago
    > Accept-Lanuage is set to English most of the time, even for people in non-enlish speaking counties. Unless you can point to some kind of evidence that shows Accept-Language is set to English regardless of the host OS' language/region setting, there's zero reason to believe this claim. > It's not that they cannot use English Right, the entirety of non-english speaking, internet-using humans are able to read English, it's just a bunch of them choose not to, but only when it comes to using a webpage? Is that what you're suggesting? Edit: I just did some very quick testing of the theory that browsers will send the "wrong" Accept-Language header. * Safari on macOS with preferred OS language set to English (Australian) sends `en-AU,en;q=0.9` * Safari on macOS with preferred OS language set to Thai (and second pref of English) sends `th-TH,th;q=0.9` * Chrome on macOS with preferred OS language set to English (Australian) for some reason sends `en-GB,en-US;q=0.9,en;q=0.8` * Chrome on macOS with preferred OS language set to Thai (and second pref of English) sends `th-TH,th;q=0.9` * Edge on Windows 11 with preferred OS language set to Thai (and second pref of English) sends `th,en;q=0.9,en-GB;q=0.8,en-US;q=0.7` * Chrome on Windows 11 with preferred OS language set to Thai (and second pref of English) sends `th-TH,th;q=0.9` Firefox is the one that can get it wrong, sometimes: in the macOS VM, I had already downloaded Firefox before setting the OS language to Thai, and the downloaded versions set a browser preferred language which doesn't change based on the OS language (the default is US English). But when I downloaded Firefox using Edge in the Win11 VM, the language was already set to Thai, so I got a "Thai preferred" download link when I typed "Firefox" in the search bar, and thus the language string it sends is not surprising: `th,en-US;q=0.7,en;q=0.3` So, again: without some evidence to show that somehow people who have no understanding of English, are using their computers or phones or tablets in English, I'm calling bullshit on this repeated claim that "non english user's browsers send requests for English language content".