3 ms·

One hour isn't really short-term memory, at least not in the usual sense, and short-term memory is definitely needed to form long-term memories. Spaced repetit

by tgv 3y ago

One hour isn't really short-term memory, at least not in the usual sense, and short-term memory is definitely needed to form long-term memories. Spaced repetition is an entirely different dimension. It doesn't fit between the three mentioned modes. You don't get spaced repetition when e.g. attending class or reading a chapter. Instead, you make notes. That's what this study is for, and anything else is a distraction.

keiferski 3y ago
My point was more that if you’re trying to decide which method is better for remembering something (handwriting vs. digital), the introduction of a spaced repetition system (either software like Anki or a Leitner box for handwritten notes) will outcompete either one that is used alone. In other words, if your goal is to go fast: a bicycle will outcompete a tricycle. But adding a motor to either will be an order of magnitude better. At least that’s what I think; and so I wish the study had included this.
- Probiotic6081 3y ago
  > My point was more that if you’re trying to decide which method is better for remembering something (handwriting vs. digital), the introduction of a spaced repetition system (either software like Anki or a Leitner box for handwritten notes) will outcompete either one that is used alone. The study in question compared three groups (pen & paper note taking, smartphone and tablet) on information retrieval and note taking duration after reading a dialogue. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but that systematic spaced repetition will lead to better information retrieval is kind of obvious and has a lot of literature to support it, but how is it relevant to this study?
  - keiferski 3y ago
    Because the original link submission title was more about memory and writing vs. typing. And so I was commenting on the topic of memory as a whole. Judging by the other comments, most people had the same interpretation.
    - Probiotic6081 3y ago
      > I was commenting on the topic of memory as a whole You specifically said that the study was lacking a fourth group (spaced repetition software.)
      - keiferski 3y ago
        You I seem to be posting hostile, unhelpful takes all over this thread, so I think I’ll end the conversation here.
- tgv 3y ago
  Studying isn't note-taking. It doesn't make sense for this study to include it. It's a different modality, a different task. If the study had included this, it would have been tossed aside in peer-review. You can't compare across widely differing conditions. An fMRI study also isn't the appropriate way to compare conditions in very long term recollection tasks, and get the result you seem to want to get out of it: the proper way to do it is scoring the test result. The implicitions of this study are limited, as usual.
- jyunwai 3y ago
  I agree with your thoughts on digital notes providing an advantage with making flashcards, as they match with my personal experience with learning new subjects. I used to learn with handwriting more than digital note-taking in the past, but I found it hard to convert the handwritten notes into a flashcard format (the best I could do was retype, or write the notes in a question-answer format, scan them, and use the screenshots as flashcards). By starting with digital notes, however, the process became simpler for making flashcards for a spaced repetition system—it became much easier to reformat the text for digital flashcards. I then found it much easier to review my notes in the future in a way that actively tested me, versus passively re-reading my handwritten notes.
- ClimaxGravely 3y ago
  Isn't that fairly obvious? You need to repeat the work for this kind of stuff. I can say that SRS reading pales in comparison to SRS writing when it comes to learning Japanese.

by tgv 3y ago

keiferski 3y ago

My point was more that if you’re trying to decide which method is better for remembering something (handwriting vs. digital), the introduction of a spaced repetition system (either software like Anki or a Leitner box for handwritten notes) will outcompete either one that is used alone. In other words, if your goal is to go fast: a bicycle will outcompete a tricycle. But adding a motor to either will be an order of magnitude better. At least that’s what I think; and so I wish the study had included this.

Probiotic6081 3y ago
> My point was more that if you’re trying to decide which method is better for remembering something (handwriting vs. digital), the introduction of a spaced repetition system (either software like Anki or a Leitner box for handwritten notes) will outcompete either one that is used alone. The study in question compared three groups (pen & paper note taking, smartphone and tablet) on information retrieval and note taking duration after reading a dialogue. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, but that systematic spaced repetition will lead to better information retrieval is kind of obvious and has a lot of literature to support it, but how is it relevant to this study?
- keiferski 3y ago
  Because the original link submission title was more about memory and writing vs. typing. And so I was commenting on the topic of memory as a whole. Judging by the other comments, most people had the same interpretation.
  - Probiotic6081 3y ago
    > I was commenting on the topic of memory as a whole You specifically said that the study was lacking a fourth group (spaced repetition software.)
    - keiferski 3y ago
      You I seem to be posting hostile, unhelpful takes all over this thread, so I think I’ll end the conversation here.
tgv 3y ago
Studying isn't note-taking. It doesn't make sense for this study to include it. It's a different modality, a different task. If the study had included this, it would have been tossed aside in peer-review. You can't compare across widely differing conditions. An fMRI study also isn't the appropriate way to compare conditions in very long term recollection tasks, and get the result you seem to want to get out of it: the proper way to do it is scoring the test result. The implicitions of this study are limited, as usual.
jyunwai 3y ago
I agree with your thoughts on digital notes providing an advantage with making flashcards, as they match with my personal experience with learning new subjects. I used to learn with handwriting more than digital note-taking in the past, but I found it hard to convert the handwritten notes into a flashcard format (the best I could do was retype, or write the notes in a question-answer format, scan them, and use the screenshots as flashcards). By starting with digital notes, however, the process became simpler for making flashcards for a spaced repetition system—it became much easier to reformat the text for digital flashcards. I then found it much easier to review my notes in the future in a way that actively tested me, versus passively re-reading my handwritten notes.
ClimaxGravely 3y ago
Isn't that fairly obvious? You need to repeat the work for this kind of stuff. I can say that SRS reading pales in comparison to SRS writing when it comes to learning Japanese.