4 ms·

I wonder how much of this is led by the likes of paying $200 million to sign up Joe Rogan or $25 million for Harry and Megan. That's a big chunk of change. 9,00

I wonder how much of this is led by the likes of paying $200 million to sign up Joe Rogan or $25 million for Harry and Megan. That's a big chunk of change. 9,000 employees too - 17% of the workforce out the door.

wombat-man 3y ago
Sure, but they’re also probably planning work for 2024. They may just figure they have more people than they need at the moment.
badcppdev 3y ago
Spotify made a gamble that having some headline Podcasters would build the listener market. Podcasters release regularly and have a different potential for becoming viral compared to musicians so it's a valid commercial decision to make. Seems like their headline gambles didn't work but googling suggests that the podcast listener market increased 10% in the last year so I think they'll probably try again.
- danpalmer 3y ago
  Anecdotally, most of the podcasts I listen to advertise as being on Spotify, especially the ones that skew towards a more mainstream audience. I think Spotify's podcast play has largely worked to gain the mindshare, it's really just them and Apple Podcasts. I suspect this means that Spotify subscribers are listening to plenty of podcasts, but perhaps podcasts failed to bring new listeners into Spotify.
- cupofjoakim 3y ago
  For what it's worth Spotify is the most popular podcast platform in the US, with 25% of the userbase: https://explodingtopics.com/blog/podcast-listeners#podcast-platform-usage https://explodingtopics.com/blog/podcast-listeners#podcast-p... I'd say that gamble in particular worked. Not so sure others will though, audio books feels like it will be a dud.
  - sdenton4 3y ago
    25% market share is a bit lackluster, though? Podcasting has also been called the slowest growing new medium in the history of new media. I can't imagine it's earning its keep, relative to those big initial payouts. Meanwhile, the shows that are brought into subscription-only world systematically fail to attract new listeners; it is hard to use podcast exclusives to grow market share. Especially the talking head variety, which exist in abundance outside the pay wall.
    - cupofjoakim 3y ago
      I both agree and disagree with you here. The expectation of the podcasting business to be full of great opportunities and monetary gain was (probably) misguided, but 25% market share in an established market in just a couple of years when there were big players holding a majority share is still a huge feat. Will it pay off? Probably not. But is 25% a big share? Yes.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        Apple Music (Jun 2015) and Google Play Music (Nov 2011) launched after Spotify (Jul 2011 in the US). I think the 4 year delay by Apple is what allowed Spotify to become so popular in the first place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Play_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Play_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify The problem for Spotify is that they need a far bigger share of the market to be able to have negotiating power against the 3 record labels that they have to buy the music from. Apple/Alphabet/Amazon do not care as much because re-selling the music at cost or even as a loss leader is not a big deal to them.
        SahAssar 3y ago
        This whole subthread is about podcasts, and in that space apple was pretty early (2005 in itunes, 2012 as a standalone app) and spotify was very late.
gardenhedge 3y ago
The Joe Rogan experience definitely worked for Both Spotify and Joe
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  You think Spotify actually made money from it? They seem to be pulling back from Podcasts...
  - l1tany11 3y ago
    Probably didn’t help that the app was so bad for months after Joe switched over that Joe was saying “sorry the app is so bad, they tell me they are working on it”. How much audience did they fail to convert? How much harder did that make building momentum? 9000 employees and couldn’t get playback to work…
anon23432343 3y ago
Spotify itself is not sustainable and going for the podcast crowed... I still think it was not a smart move... Its like that blue haired streamer going from twitch to what ever the msft clone of it was. Yes Spotify is super popular but I hear more and more people moving away from it to for example apple music or other services. They don't focus on the core anymore that much. For example they are super late on the lossless audio train. Yes you can hear a difference from spotify and apple music. I tested it with all my colleagues in the office. You can clearly hear that apple music or tidal sounds better then the spotify versions.
- jamespo 3y ago
  how much difference does lossless make on the typical headphones in use with mobile devices?
  - threeseed 3y ago
    People also use Apple Music, Shopify etc on non-mobile devices as well as IEMs on mobile. And for those lossless is a massive difference.
  - BytesAndGears 3y ago
    At least with my AirPods or my fancy Master&Dynamic over-ear headphones, there is a pretty big difference in Apple Music vs others, but I don’t think it's necessarily about bitrate. I think Apple just gets higher quality masters of some songs. Same thing as Tidal when I used that, but Apple seems even a step further at this point (which is unfortunate because I really don’t want to rely on a mega-corp for everything). Especially the ones with the Dolby Atmos (Spatial Audio) mixes. Even if you don’t have super high-res headphones, the difference in dynamic range is pretty obvious, and it makes songs just feel more alive. I don’t have any stats to back this up but it seems that Apple Music has at least managed to somewhat buck the trend of the “loudness wars” with the masters they use. I wonder if this is actually published or written about anywhere…
    - anon23432343 3y ago
Neil44 3y ago
To put it into context 9000 workers on an average of $75000 is $675 mil a year on salaries alone, so Joe's 200 over 3 and a half years, harry and meg etc etc isn't a big a deal as it might sound. The elephant is the 9000 staff IMO.

wombat-man 3y ago

Sure, but they’re also probably planning work for 2024. They may just figure they have more people than they need at the moment.

badcppdev 3y ago

Spotify made a gamble that having some headline Podcasters would build the listener market. Podcasters release regularly and have a different potential for becoming viral compared to musicians so it's a valid commercial decision to make. Seems like their headline gambles didn't work but googling suggests that the podcast listener market increased 10% in the last year so I think they'll probably try again.

danpalmer 3y ago
Anecdotally, most of the podcasts I listen to advertise as being on Spotify, especially the ones that skew towards a more mainstream audience. I think Spotify's podcast play has largely worked to gain the mindshare, it's really just them and Apple Podcasts. I suspect this means that Spotify subscribers are listening to plenty of podcasts, but perhaps podcasts failed to bring new listeners into Spotify.
cupofjoakim 3y ago
For what it's worth Spotify is the most popular podcast platform in the US, with 25% of the userbase: https://explodingtopics.com/blog/podcast-listeners#podcast-platform-usage https://explodingtopics.com/blog/podcast-listeners#podcast-p... I'd say that gamble in particular worked. Not so sure others will though, audio books feels like it will be a dud.
- sdenton4 3y ago
  25% market share is a bit lackluster, though? Podcasting has also been called the slowest growing new medium in the history of new media. I can't imagine it's earning its keep, relative to those big initial payouts. Meanwhile, the shows that are brought into subscription-only world systematically fail to attract new listeners; it is hard to use podcast exclusives to grow market share. Especially the talking head variety, which exist in abundance outside the pay wall.
  - cupofjoakim 3y ago
    I both agree and disagree with you here. The expectation of the podcasting business to be full of great opportunities and monetary gain was (probably) misguided, but 25% market share in an established market in just a couple of years when there were big players holding a majority share is still a huge feat. Will it pay off? Probably not. But is 25% a big share? Yes.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      Apple Music (Jun 2015) and Google Play Music (Nov 2011) launched after Spotify (Jul 2011 in the US). I think the 4 year delay by Apple is what allowed Spotify to become so popular in the first place. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Play_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Play_Music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotify The problem for Spotify is that they need a far bigger share of the market to be able to have negotiating power against the 3 record labels that they have to buy the music from. Apple/Alphabet/Amazon do not care as much because re-selling the music at cost or even as a loss leader is not a big deal to them.
      - SahAssar 3y ago
        This whole subthread is about podcasts, and in that space apple was pretty early (2005 in itunes, 2012 as a standalone app) and spotify was very late.

gardenhedge 3y ago

The Joe Rogan experience definitely worked for Both Spotify and Joe

madeofpalk 3y ago
You think Spotify actually made money from it? They seem to be pulling back from Podcasts...
- l1tany11 3y ago
  Probably didn’t help that the app was so bad for months after Joe switched over that Joe was saying “sorry the app is so bad, they tell me they are working on it”. How much audience did they fail to convert? How much harder did that make building momentum? 9000 employees and couldn’t get playback to work…

anon23432343 3y ago

Spotify itself is not sustainable and going for the podcast crowed... I still think it was not a smart move... Its like that blue haired streamer going from twitch to what ever the msft clone of it was. Yes Spotify is super popular but I hear more and more people moving away from it to for example apple music or other services. They don't focus on the core anymore that much. For example they are super late on the lossless audio train. Yes you can hear a difference from spotify and apple music. I tested it with all my colleagues in the office. You can clearly hear that apple music or tidal sounds better then the spotify versions.

jamespo 3y ago
how much difference does lossless make on the typical headphones in use with mobile devices?
- threeseed 3y ago
  People also use Apple Music, Shopify etc on non-mobile devices as well as IEMs on mobile. And for those lossless is a massive difference.
- BytesAndGears 3y ago
  At least with my AirPods or my fancy Master&Dynamic over-ear headphones, there is a pretty big difference in Apple Music vs others, but I don’t think it's necessarily about bitrate. I think Apple just gets higher quality masters of some songs. Same thing as Tidal when I used that, but Apple seems even a step further at this point (which is unfortunate because I really don’t want to rely on a mega-corp for everything). Especially the ones with the Dolby Atmos (Spatial Audio) mixes. Even if you don’t have super high-res headphones, the difference in dynamic range is pretty obvious, and it makes songs just feel more alive. I don’t have any stats to back this up but it seems that Apple Music has at least managed to somewhat buck the trend of the “loudness wars” with the masters they use. I wonder if this is actually published or written about anywhere…
  - anon23432343 3y ago

Neil44 3y ago

To put it into context 9000 workers on an average of $75000 is $675 mil a year on salaries alone, so Joe's 200 over 3 and a half years, harry and meg etc etc isn't a big a deal as it might sound. The elephant is the 9000 staff IMO.