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Ok. So now your house is on fire. How do you retrieve your datas from the melted local NAS ? Or a buglar come and empties it. Don't get me wrong, I'm full "mov

Ok. So now your house is on fire. How do you retrieve your datas from the melted local NAS ? Or a buglar come and empties it. Don't get me wrong, I'm full "move away from the cloud" in the "proprietary cloud" way. But getting some drive space on a different location is important if you care about your datas. Could be in a relative's or friend's place (so almost no per month cost) or on a cloud drive (I personnaly use the Hetzner 10€/m 5TB drive), depending on your choice of backup solution. But it's important.

wkat4242 3y ago
I have a raspberry at a family member's house with an encrypted backup on an external HDD I sync with rsync. I used hetzner before but the problem was I needed about 1.5TB and their only options in that range are 1 and 5TB. The 5TB option was a bit too wasteful.
- geek_at 3y ago
  I use the same, just I sent incremental encrypted ZFS snapshots. These are a game changer since the target can import them and verify that they work without ever needing the key
pmlnr 3y ago
Ok. So your credit card expired, and the provider cleared your cloud data. How do you retrieve it? See, each has issues.
- epups 3y ago
  This is not a good example. One of them is under your control, the other isn't.
  - AndroTux 3y ago
    I read many posts of people complaining about some cloud service deleting their data for „no reason“ (= user error, mostly not reading emails) every month, while I can’t even remember the last post of someone losing their data due to a fire (except OVH bursting into flames ;) ). So I think it’s a valid argument to be made. Bottom line: have a backup, and utilize cloud as well as local storage.
- stef25 3y ago
  Or you don't read the small print and Backblaze deleted the backup of your external disk if you don't connect your computer for X days. Happened to me, very fucking pissed. Even when you're an "IT guy" think you've got it all covered it can still blow up.
  - tambre 3y ago
    Do you have any pointers to such fineprint? I can't find it nor did I notice it when I just very recently began using Backblaze.
    - stef25 3y ago
      yeah here https://help.backblaze.com/hc/en-us/articles/217665398-Backing-up-External-Hard-Drives https://help.backblaze.com/hc/en-us/articles/217665398-Backi... > Backblaze will backup external USB and Firewire hard drives that are detached and re-attached as long as you remember to re-attach the hard drive at least once every 30 days. If the drive is detached for more than 30 days, Backblaze interprets this as data that has been permanently deleted and securely deletes the copy from the Backblaze datacenter It's a real fucker like if you have your stuff in storage for a while and then reformat the drive and then try to download everything from Backblaze (what I do every time I get a new computer), only to discover it's not there. Left a REAL bad taste.
      - theshrike79 3y ago
        It's because the service is billed as a "backup" not as "cheap cloud storage". If they allowed people to back up unlimited USB drives and networks shares, /r/datahoarder would be all up their business with 1PB storage. This is why they limit it to only stuff you're actually using. If you want generic cloud storage with infinite retention, they have B2
        stef25 3y ago
        They mention in their docs that this is why they forbid (not limit) NAS. Afaik you could still connect as many 8TB USB drives to your machine.
- mrweasel 3y ago
  I don't really get that example. Assuming that your using the cloud solution as a backup, you'd still have the original and can restart the backup, either on the same or a different cloud provider. If your house burns down there's a good chance that you're losing both the original and the backup. Ideally you have the original, a local backup and a cloud backup. The cloud backup can be updated a few times a day, and the local every few 10 - 15 minutes.
- theamk 3y ago
  You missed a step here. 1. my credit card expired 2. I've started getting warning emails about data being cleared, and giving me a few weeks to fix this (because my provider does want me to keep paying.. it's their business after all) 3. I put in a new credit card and it all works again Compare it to: you came back home and your data is gone. Or you power up your PC after power outage, and the disk fails. Or even worse, you are sitting in front of your computer, and the cryptolocker/ransomware window pops up. (And one of those is much more likely to happen than others. I don't think I've ever heard stories about cloud data deleted for non-payment, but I've had plenty of first-hand experiences with disk failures and send-hand stories about ransomware)
- JeanMarcS 3y ago
  I thought I stated in my comment that you should have both, sorry if it was not clear
hexfish 3y ago
Well it's an important point, but I don't think the author of OP argues you shouldn't do that. By the way: have a look at restic, it's great (if you don't require a GUI).
- katrinarodri 3y ago
  yep, agree backups are important and that could've been pointed out in the OP. Any storage plan will also mean including a backup plan so if something goes wrong you can restore.
crabbone 3y ago
> So now your house is on fire. How do you retrieve your datas from the melted local NAS ? Or a buglar come and empties it. I fully expect my possessions and my data to be perishable. Losing it in a fire is still better than giving it to others. I will cry a little, when that happens, but as a consolation to myself, I'll say: at least it wasn't stolen from one of those big companies and won't be used to harm anyone.
- j7ake 3y ago
  Why is losing data better than “giving” it (an encrypted version if you care about privacy) to others?
  - crabbone 3y ago
    Who says it's going to be encrypted? The service provider may screw up in more ways than one... The data that may be plausibly stolen from me alone doesn't have a lot of impact if I'm the only victim. It starts to matter a lot more if it's stolen as a part of a larger heist. Eg. if someone knows I'm saving money to buy a particular brand of car, then it doesn't matter really, but if someone knows that among a million people 3KK want to buy that particular make, they may have a valuable insight about making investments into car manufacturing industry. Of course this isn't limited to cars and investments. Suppose, someone stealing data discovers a trend in health problems which would increase demand for a certain drug... same idea.
katrinarodri 3y ago
yes, a backup solution is an important part of the overall setup. Didn't mean to make a case for a permanent move away from all cloud storage, but wanted to understand the shortcomings of cloud-only storage, especially from proprietary cloud companies. Setting up backups, whether they are with other cloud providers or local NAS, is important to safely store your data.

wkat4242 3y ago

I have a raspberry at a family member's house with an encrypted backup on an external HDD I sync with rsync. I used hetzner before but the problem was I needed about 1.5TB and their only options in that range are 1 and 5TB. The 5TB option was a bit too wasteful.

geek_at 3y ago
I use the same, just I sent incremental encrypted ZFS snapshots. These are a game changer since the target can import them and verify that they work without ever needing the key

pmlnr 3y ago

Ok. So your credit card expired, and the provider cleared your cloud data. How do you retrieve it? See, each has issues.

epups 3y ago
This is not a good example. One of them is under your control, the other isn't.
- AndroTux 3y ago
  I read many posts of people complaining about some cloud service deleting their data for „no reason“ (= user error, mostly not reading emails) every month, while I can’t even remember the last post of someone losing their data due to a fire (except OVH bursting into flames ;) ). So I think it’s a valid argument to be made. Bottom line: have a backup, and utilize cloud as well as local storage.
stef25 3y ago
Or you don't read the small print and Backblaze deleted the backup of your external disk if you don't connect your computer for X days. Happened to me, very fucking pissed. Even when you're an "IT guy" think you've got it all covered it can still blow up.
- tambre 3y ago
  Do you have any pointers to such fineprint? I can't find it nor did I notice it when I just very recently began using Backblaze.
  - stef25 3y ago
    yeah here https://help.backblaze.com/hc/en-us/articles/217665398-Backing-up-External-Hard-Drives https://help.backblaze.com/hc/en-us/articles/217665398-Backi... > Backblaze will backup external USB and Firewire hard drives that are detached and re-attached as long as you remember to re-attach the hard drive at least once every 30 days. If the drive is detached for more than 30 days, Backblaze interprets this as data that has been permanently deleted and securely deletes the copy from the Backblaze datacenter It's a real fucker like if you have your stuff in storage for a while and then reformat the drive and then try to download everything from Backblaze (what I do every time I get a new computer), only to discover it's not there. Left a REAL bad taste.
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      It's because the service is billed as a "backup" not as "cheap cloud storage". If they allowed people to back up unlimited USB drives and networks shares, /r/datahoarder would be all up their business with 1PB storage. This is why they limit it to only stuff you're actually using. If you want generic cloud storage with infinite retention, they have B2
      - stef25 3y ago
        They mention in their docs that this is why they forbid (not limit) NAS. Afaik you could still connect as many 8TB USB drives to your machine.
mrweasel 3y ago
I don't really get that example. Assuming that your using the cloud solution as a backup, you'd still have the original and can restart the backup, either on the same or a different cloud provider. If your house burns down there's a good chance that you're losing both the original and the backup. Ideally you have the original, a local backup and a cloud backup. The cloud backup can be updated a few times a day, and the local every few 10 - 15 minutes.
theamk 3y ago
You missed a step here. 1. my credit card expired 2. I've started getting warning emails about data being cleared, and giving me a few weeks to fix this (because my provider does want me to keep paying.. it's their business after all) 3. I put in a new credit card and it all works again Compare it to: you came back home and your data is gone. Or you power up your PC after power outage, and the disk fails. Or even worse, you are sitting in front of your computer, and the cryptolocker/ransomware window pops up. (And one of those is much more likely to happen than others. I don't think I've ever heard stories about cloud data deleted for non-payment, but I've had plenty of first-hand experiences with disk failures and send-hand stories about ransomware)
JeanMarcS 3y ago
I thought I stated in my comment that you should have both, sorry if it was not clear

hexfish 3y ago

Well it's an important point, but I don't think the author of OP argues you shouldn't do that. By the way: have a look at restic, it's great (if you don't require a GUI).

katrinarodri 3y ago
yep, agree backups are important and that could've been pointed out in the OP. Any storage plan will also mean including a backup plan so if something goes wrong you can restore.

crabbone 3y ago

> So now your house is on fire. How do you retrieve your datas from the melted local NAS ? Or a buglar come and empties it. I fully expect my possessions and my data to be perishable. Losing it in a fire is still better than giving it to others. I will cry a little, when that happens, but as a consolation to myself, I'll say: at least it wasn't stolen from one of those big companies and won't be used to harm anyone.

j7ake 3y ago
Why is losing data better than “giving” it (an encrypted version if you care about privacy) to others?
- crabbone 3y ago
  Who says it's going to be encrypted? The service provider may screw up in more ways than one... The data that may be plausibly stolen from me alone doesn't have a lot of impact if I'm the only victim. It starts to matter a lot more if it's stolen as a part of a larger heist. Eg. if someone knows I'm saving money to buy a particular brand of car, then it doesn't matter really, but if someone knows that among a million people 3KK want to buy that particular make, they may have a valuable insight about making investments into car manufacturing industry. Of course this isn't limited to cars and investments. Suppose, someone stealing data discovers a trend in health problems which would increase demand for a certain drug... same idea.

katrinarodri 3y ago

yes, a backup solution is an important part of the overall setup. Didn't mean to make a case for a permanent move away from all cloud storage, but wanted to understand the shortcomings of cloud-only storage, especially from proprietary cloud companies. Setting up backups, whether they are with other cloud providers or local NAS, is important to safely store your data.