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He certainly doesn’t like shitty programs… which seems to be the vast majority of software today. You can shit on him and Muratori all you like for this push t

by wredue 3y ago

He certainly doesn’t like shitty programs… which seems to be the vast majority of software today. You can shit on him and Muratori all you like for this push they are doing, but ultimately, they have both put their money where their mouth is.

CyberDildonics 3y ago
for this push they are doing, I know about the handmade hero website and love it in theory, but how does an unreleased language that no one can use because the author looks down on everyone help anyone?
- Xeamek 3y ago
  >no one can use because the author looks down on everyone help anyone. Citation needed. Blow has different aproach when it comes to building the language (it's project driven, as he is working in it alongside his bug commercial game), but that's it. Nothing about looking down on others
Ygg2 3y ago
As much as I like Muratori, making sweeping statements about performance overlooks that vast majority of people prefer performance penalties over feature penalties. How software is used and maintained should dictate how you develop it. Is it some software that thrives on features being delivered fast (office suite, image editors)? Perf can suffer, bugs are acceptable. Is it something that needs to be safe at all cost (critical car safety, medical software)? Perf must be tolerable but bugs are no go. Is it something that has no hard perf requirements but will be maintained for decades. Make code clean, treat performance as non-issue.
- wredue 3y ago
  You’re exactly the type of “excuse factory” person that Muratori talks about. >maintainable software means bad performance It literally doesn’t. In many cases, it’s actually the exact opposite. Interestingly, “maintainable software” not only has shit performance, but also often has incredibly shit maintainability. Muratori, in fact, isn’t even pushing for low level optimization or even benchmarking at this point. In his latest talks, he’s actually just pushing for “don’t make your software garbage based on ominous ‘it’s NoT MAiNTaInAbLE’ claims”, or as he puts it, “non-pessimized”. He literally just pushes for “writing the code that actually needs to be written to accomplish the task”. That’s it. The programmer ego problem is substantially out of hand, so let’s just spell it out: You cannot and will not successfully predict the future of your code, so stop making your code worse by trying to.
  - Ygg2 3y ago
    > It literally doesn’t. It literally does. You want high performance, and not just low hanging fruits? That means branchless code, SIMD and manual loop unrolling. That code is highly arcane. I'm not talking about just use better data/algo. That's every CS grad common knowledge. > He literally just pushes for “writing the code that actually needs to be written to accomplish the task”. That’s it. If he does, it goes against his rants about slow software. If slow software sells, it already accomplished its task. Getting sold/accepted. Maintainable code means easier for others to start working. And lessening the future bus factor (what happens if most knowledgeable person leaves). I.e. you're optimizing for different set of constraints. > You’re exactly the type of “excuse factory” person that Muratori talks about. Man, you need to watch less Muratori. You're tripping things.

by wredue 3y ago

CyberDildonics 3y ago

for this push they are doing, I know about the handmade hero website and love it in theory, but how does an unreleased language that no one can use because the author looks down on everyone help anyone?

Xeamek 3y ago
>no one can use because the author looks down on everyone help anyone. Citation needed. Blow has different aproach when it comes to building the language (it's project driven, as he is working in it alongside his bug commercial game), but that's it. Nothing about looking down on others

Ygg2 3y ago

As much as I like Muratori, making sweeping statements about performance overlooks that vast majority of people prefer performance penalties over feature penalties. How software is used and maintained should dictate how you develop it. Is it some software that thrives on features being delivered fast (office suite, image editors)? Perf can suffer, bugs are acceptable. Is it something that needs to be safe at all cost (critical car safety, medical software)? Perf must be tolerable but bugs are no go. Is it something that has no hard perf requirements but will be maintained for decades. Make code clean, treat performance as non-issue.

wredue 3y ago
You’re exactly the type of “excuse factory” person that Muratori talks about. >maintainable software means bad performance It literally doesn’t. In many cases, it’s actually the exact opposite. Interestingly, “maintainable software” not only has shit performance, but also often has incredibly shit maintainability. Muratori, in fact, isn’t even pushing for low level optimization or even benchmarking at this point. In his latest talks, he’s actually just pushing for “don’t make your software garbage based on ominous ‘it’s NoT MAiNTaInAbLE’ claims”, or as he puts it, “non-pessimized”. He literally just pushes for “writing the code that actually needs to be written to accomplish the task”. That’s it. The programmer ego problem is substantially out of hand, so let’s just spell it out: You cannot and will not successfully predict the future of your code, so stop making your code worse by trying to.
- Ygg2 3y ago
  > It literally doesn’t. It literally does. You want high performance, and not just low hanging fruits? That means branchless code, SIMD and manual loop unrolling. That code is highly arcane. I'm not talking about just use better data/algo. That's every CS grad common knowledge. > He literally just pushes for “writing the code that actually needs to be written to accomplish the task”. That’s it. If he does, it goes against his rants about slow software. If slow software sells, it already accomplished its task. Getting sold/accepted. Maintainable code means easier for others to start working. And lessening the future bus factor (what happens if most knowledgeable person leaves). I.e. you're optimizing for different set of constraints. > You’re exactly the type of “excuse factory” person that Muratori talks about. Man, you need to watch less Muratori. You're tripping things.