3 ms·

Nah. We're talking about spam texts and phone calls. That stuff isn't legal. Yeah what everyone else does is creepy af, and _should be illegal_, but that's not

Nah. We're talking about spam texts and phone calls. That stuff isn't legal. Yeah what everyone else does is creepy af, and _should be illegal_, but that's not the facts on the ground today.

BLKNSLVR 3y ago
The creepy af stuff being legal is one of the cracks that the illegal stuff uses to leak through. Those cracks need to be sealed, but there's enough creepy af industry lobbying that it won't happen because money. There's money in them thar retirement villages.
- flerchin 3y ago
  I don't really grok this argument. Google's panopticon is not facilitating or causing the Car Warranty calls, or text messages about my package waiting at the 'usps facility'.
  - BLKNSLVR 3y ago
    I see the lack of any kind of privacy controls or regulation as facilitating the selling of personal information (= legal). This information is, in turn, bought and used by companies behind these scams. Google's panopticon started this desperate grab for personal contact information (see recent discussions here on HN around Smart TVs as another one of the outgrowths of this) in it's ability to turn it into advertising profit on a previously unprecedented scale. This is separate to telecomms companies seeming lack of ability to control or monitor what's on their networks. Which is also a regulation / enforcement problem. However, there are functions that are 'allowed' on telecomms networks to facilitate 'business' (eg. overseas companies being able to spoof local numbers so that people actually answer their calls), such that this 'feature' is then exploited by scammers - when, arguably, the whole 'feature' is a scam in the first place. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-03/mobiles-and-landlines-targetted-by-international-phone-scammers/9719820 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-03/mobiles-and-landlines... (I'm sure I read an article somewhere that described the ability to spoof local numbers as a business decision to allow overseas marketers to sell their wares locally without fear of their calls not being answered. Trying to find it. I may be mistaken.) Edit: services such as virtual phone numbers, such as these: https://callhippo.com/blog/country/virtual-phone-number-providers-in-australia https://callhippo.com/blog/country/virtual-phone-number-prov... https://www.numeroesim.com/how-to-get-an-australian-phone-number-in-no-time/ https://www.numeroesim.com/how-to-get-an-australian-phone-nu... https://virtual-local-numbers.com/countries/65-australia.html https://virtual-local-numbers.com/countries/65-australia.htm... This is likely coming from the purely 'if it can be abused it shouldn't exist' bias, which may mean I've taken a step closer to becoming an old luddite, but it feels as if, if this is possible, then the entire infrastructure can't be trusted any more - and people consciously choosing to just not answer their phones for any unrecognised number feels like confirmation of this stance.
goodlinks 3y ago
Imho the normalisation of agressive advertising and inhuman communication with customers is what make spamming profitable.. they are not that different from legit orgs.
- Affric 3y ago
  100% These guys are just doing what the ad guys are doing but it’s for fraud. The fraud is only half of it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Nah. We're talking about spam texts and phone calls. That stuff isn't legal. Yeah what everyone else does is creepy af, and _should be illegal_, but that's not the facts on the ground today.

BLKNSLVR 3y ago

The creepy af stuff being legal is one of the cracks that the illegal stuff uses to leak through. Those cracks need to be sealed, but there's enough creepy af industry lobbying that it won't happen because money. There's money in them thar retirement villages.

flerchin 3y ago
I don't really grok this argument. Google's panopticon is not facilitating or causing the Car Warranty calls, or text messages about my package waiting at the 'usps facility'.
- BLKNSLVR 3y ago
  I see the lack of any kind of privacy controls or regulation as facilitating the selling of personal information (= legal). This information is, in turn, bought and used by companies behind these scams. Google's panopticon started this desperate grab for personal contact information (see recent discussions here on HN around Smart TVs as another one of the outgrowths of this) in it's ability to turn it into advertising profit on a previously unprecedented scale. This is separate to telecomms companies seeming lack of ability to control or monitor what's on their networks. Which is also a regulation / enforcement problem. However, there are functions that are 'allowed' on telecomms networks to facilitate 'business' (eg. overseas companies being able to spoof local numbers so that people actually answer their calls), such that this 'feature' is then exploited by scammers - when, arguably, the whole 'feature' is a scam in the first place. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-03/mobiles-and-landlines-targetted-by-international-phone-scammers/9719820 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-03/mobiles-and-landlines... (I'm sure I read an article somewhere that described the ability to spoof local numbers as a business decision to allow overseas marketers to sell their wares locally without fear of their calls not being answered. Trying to find it. I may be mistaken.) Edit: services such as virtual phone numbers, such as these: https://callhippo.com/blog/country/virtual-phone-number-providers-in-australia https://callhippo.com/blog/country/virtual-phone-number-prov... https://www.numeroesim.com/how-to-get-an-australian-phone-number-in-no-time/ https://www.numeroesim.com/how-to-get-an-australian-phone-nu... https://virtual-local-numbers.com/countries/65-australia.html https://virtual-local-numbers.com/countries/65-australia.htm... This is likely coming from the purely 'if it can be abused it shouldn't exist' bias, which may mean I've taken a step closer to becoming an old luddite, but it feels as if, if this is possible, then the entire infrastructure can't be trusted any more - and people consciously choosing to just not answer their phones for any unrecognised number feels like confirmation of this stance.

goodlinks 3y ago

Imho the normalisation of agressive advertising and inhuman communication with customers is what make spamming profitable.. they are not that different from legit orgs.

Affric 3y ago
100% These guys are just doing what the ad guys are doing but it’s for fraud. The fraud is only half of it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]