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What would happen in a truly free market is that a large percentage of elderly people with fixed incomes would be priced out of the medical care they need to li

by sulam 3y ago

What would happen in a truly free market is that a large percentage of elderly people with fixed incomes would be priced out of the medical care they need to live healthy, fulfilling lives past their 60s. This is very simple math, and it is something our society has decided not to support. There's a variety of factors driving that decision, not least that the elderly is a large, active voting bloc and politicians want to court their good will. If you have a solution for this that doesn't just assume "the free market" will work it out, that would be interesting.

nickpp 3y ago
Free markets tend to reduce prices making health care more affordable (including for people on fixed income). For an incredible success story see how the free markets made computing power so affordable despite last century’s “digital divide” worries.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  “Free market” can only exist in specific sectors and rarely without extensive regulation. Comparing computer and healthcare industries makes almost no sense (besides extremely superficial ways) due to perfectly obvious reasons. > making health care more affordable Doubtful (since there is zero evidence of this working anywhere). Try to imagine how would this work for cancer and other serious diseases (hint: it wouldn’t at all for the majority of the population without some form of ins)
  - nickpp 3y ago
    Free markets have existed since the dawn of mankind. Their only prerequisite was the rule of law. They are responsible for the amazing wealth we are enjoying everyday, for the full shelves of products and the range of services offered to us. While regulations - brought for our own good and safety, of course - succeed in increasing costs and add delays. Just see healthcare, housing and education for some sad examples. I am curious why you think they wouldn't work for healthcare since: a) they worked just fine before government started intervening somewhere mid-last century and b) their mechanisms (price signals, competition, law of supply and demand, etc) apply just as well like for any other essential goods (food, water, fuel, etc).
    - sulam 3y ago
      There are regulations affecting the food you eat, the home you live in, the cars you drive and the roads they're driven on. You'd be hard pressed to find anything run purely as a free market in the US, much less elsewhere. Moreover, history is full of evidence that a pure free market begets regulation as a direct consequence of the natural desire to externalize the costs in a system. Pure free markets are an ephemerality in the world, undone by their own worst instincts soon after their creation.
      - borski 3y ago
        Pure free markets also lead to monopolies, as we’ve seen countless times in American history before various markets got regulated.
        nickpp 3y ago
        Actually, free markets have a very efficient way of dealing with monopolies: it's called competition. Only when competition is restricted by governments (through regulations, certifications, patents and such) can a lasting monopoly be achieved. > countless times in American history Please provide some examples then. The most widely touted, Standard Oil, was already losing marked to its healthy competition before antitrust action even started: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil#Legacy_and_criticism_of_breakup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil#Legacy_and_critic...
        borski 3y ago
        American Tobacco Co - in 1890 and, through acquisitions and mergers, came to control virtually the entire American tobacco industry with around 150 factories. The U.S. Court of Appeals eventually deemed it in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act and forced the company to dissolve. Andrew Carnegie's Steel Co. - created a vertical monopoly in the steel industry by obtaining control over every level involved in steel production, from raw materials, transportation and manufacturing to distribution and finance. By 1897, he controlled almost the entire steel industry in the United States. In 1901, became part of the world's first billion-dollar business when it merged with a group of other steel businesses under the name U.S. Steel Corp. (ticker: X), to become the largest company in existence at the time, which remains among the largest steel producers in the world. AT&T - operated as a monopoly in the telephone industry for many decades until 1982 when it was forced to break up into eight smaller companies, almost all of which have since become a part of AT&T again.

by sulam 3y ago

nickpp 3y ago

Free markets tend to reduce prices making health care more affordable (including for people on fixed income). For an incredible success story see how the free markets made computing power so affordable despite last century’s “digital divide” worries.

ffgjgf1 3y ago
“Free market” can only exist in specific sectors and rarely without extensive regulation. Comparing computer and healthcare industries makes almost no sense (besides extremely superficial ways) due to perfectly obvious reasons. > making health care more affordable Doubtful (since there is zero evidence of this working anywhere). Try to imagine how would this work for cancer and other serious diseases (hint: it wouldn’t at all for the majority of the population without some form of ins)
- nickpp 3y ago
  Free markets have existed since the dawn of mankind. Their only prerequisite was the rule of law. They are responsible for the amazing wealth we are enjoying everyday, for the full shelves of products and the range of services offered to us. While regulations - brought for our own good and safety, of course - succeed in increasing costs and add delays. Just see healthcare, housing and education for some sad examples. I am curious why you think they wouldn't work for healthcare since: a) they worked just fine before government started intervening somewhere mid-last century and b) their mechanisms (price signals, competition, law of supply and demand, etc) apply just as well like for any other essential goods (food, water, fuel, etc).
  - sulam 3y ago
    There are regulations affecting the food you eat, the home you live in, the cars you drive and the roads they're driven on. You'd be hard pressed to find anything run purely as a free market in the US, much less elsewhere. Moreover, history is full of evidence that a pure free market begets regulation as a direct consequence of the natural desire to externalize the costs in a system. Pure free markets are an ephemerality in the world, undone by their own worst instincts soon after their creation.
    - borski 3y ago
      Pure free markets also lead to monopolies, as we’ve seen countless times in American history before various markets got regulated.
      - nickpp 3y ago
        Actually, free markets have a very efficient way of dealing with monopolies: it's called competition. Only when competition is restricted by governments (through regulations, certifications, patents and such) can a lasting monopoly be achieved. > countless times in American history Please provide some examples then. The most widely touted, Standard Oil, was already losing marked to its healthy competition before antitrust action even started: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil#Legacy_and_criticism_of_breakup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil#Legacy_and_critic...
        borski 3y ago
        American Tobacco Co - in 1890 and, through acquisitions and mergers, came to control virtually the entire American tobacco industry with around 150 factories. The U.S. Court of Appeals eventually deemed it in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act and forced the company to dissolve. Andrew Carnegie's Steel Co. - created a vertical monopoly in the steel industry by obtaining control over every level involved in steel production, from raw materials, transportation and manufacturing to distribution and finance. By 1897, he controlled almost the entire steel industry in the United States. In 1901, became part of the world's first billion-dollar business when it merged with a group of other steel businesses under the name U.S. Steel Corp. (ticker: X), to become the largest company in existence at the time, which remains among the largest steel producers in the world. AT&T - operated as a monopoly in the telephone industry for many decades until 1982 when it was forced to break up into eight smaller companies, almost all of which have since become a part of AT&T again.