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It doesn't matter whether policies etc. were right or fair in the past, the price points now matter. Same for what policies are feasible now. If you need the p

It doesn't matter whether policies etc. were right or fair in the past, the price points now matter. Same for what policies are feasible now. If you need the power to remove carbon dioxide from the air, you do that where the power is. (And there is also chemical storage if you had to transport energy long distance - but a moot point).

vlovich123 3y ago
Interesting how solar proponents have moving goalposts for nuclear. In the 90s when solar was too expensive, it was all about safety. Now when pricing for solar is more competitive it’s “oh but surely nuclear can’t be cheaper anymore” or “but solar costs are dropping way faster - that means solar will be more successful”. Aside: care to present any evidence that solar is actually cheaper than nuclear today or even projected out to 2030? The problem is that solar capacity just grows too slowly. We’re growing solar manufacturing capacity as quickly as possible and still fossil fuels remains stubbornly the dominant fuel type for grid energy production in America and barely shifts regardless of how many renewables we add. So from the perspective of “we tried something maybe it’s not working” I’d rather look at the impact scaling up an energy source has on fossil fuels and all evidence suggest that solar has trouble taking over (fossil fuel use and solar energy generated seems uncorrelated whereas it is inversely correlated with nuclear which is what you want).
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  I linked to the costs data earlier (have a look at figure 1, for example. It includes cost projections, too). Why are you so focused on solar, other things like wind are cheap, too? I couldn't care less about what particular energy source is used, I am just making a cost argument. No goal posts are being shifted by me. If you now want to discuss industrial capacity, then, sure, let's discuss how we can somehow build a few hundred nuclear power plants quickly but not expand wind, solar, geothermal or other things quickly. If there already are cheap technologies, pushing for another one that isn't but might be is a tough proposition.
- matthewdgreen 3y ago
  > The problem is that solar capacity just grows too slowly. We’re growing solar manufacturing capacity as quickly as possible and still fossil fuels China built more wind and solar in the first nine months of 2023 than the sum total of all their nuclear reactors under construction, and they have 26. They are likely to build even more over the next nine months. Current estimates are that their emissions will begin a structural decline as soon as next year, because their renewable construction is outpacing demand. Your statement is so far off factually it’s not even in the same universe as reality.

vlovich123 3y ago

Interesting how solar proponents have moving goalposts for nuclear. In the 90s when solar was too expensive, it was all about safety. Now when pricing for solar is more competitive it’s “oh but surely nuclear can’t be cheaper anymore” or “but solar costs are dropping way faster - that means solar will be more successful”. Aside: care to present any evidence that solar is actually cheaper than nuclear today or even projected out to 2030? The problem is that solar capacity just grows too slowly. We’re growing solar manufacturing capacity as quickly as possible and still fossil fuels remains stubbornly the dominant fuel type for grid energy production in America and barely shifts regardless of how many renewables we add. So from the perspective of “we tried something maybe it’s not working” I’d rather look at the impact scaling up an energy source has on fossil fuels and all evidence suggest that solar has trouble taking over (fossil fuel use and solar energy generated seems uncorrelated whereas it is inversely correlated with nuclear which is what you want).

RandomLensman 3y ago
I linked to the costs data earlier (have a look at figure 1, for example. It includes cost projections, too). Why are you so focused on solar, other things like wind are cheap, too? I couldn't care less about what particular energy source is used, I am just making a cost argument. No goal posts are being shifted by me. If you now want to discuss industrial capacity, then, sure, let's discuss how we can somehow build a few hundred nuclear power plants quickly but not expand wind, solar, geothermal or other things quickly. If there already are cheap technologies, pushing for another one that isn't but might be is a tough proposition.
matthewdgreen 3y ago
> The problem is that solar capacity just grows too slowly. We’re growing solar manufacturing capacity as quickly as possible and still fossil fuels China built more wind and solar in the first nine months of 2023 than the sum total of all their nuclear reactors under construction, and they have 26. They are likely to build even more over the next nine months. Current estimates are that their emissions will begin a structural decline as soon as next year, because their renewable construction is outpacing demand. Your statement is so far off factually it’s not even in the same universe as reality.