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Is there any reason to think that this would work for political party donation spam? Do the telecom carriers that provide services for all those horrific text

Is there any reason to think that this would work for political party donation spam? Do the telecom carriers that provide services for all those horrific text messages about how the other party is going to install a dictator unless you donate to them right now actually care enough to punish those?

troydavis 3y ago
From firsthand experience, yes, it works for unsolicited political party donation messages. Not 100% of the time, but way more than 0%. These wholesale carriers know that recipients will flag unsolicited political messages as spam (to the recipient's wireless provider), and they don't want consumer wireless providers to block or heavily rate-limit messages from their phone numbers. The political campaigns cycle through phone numbers, so their unsolicited messages can "taint" many phone numbers - which will affect other customers' campaigns. The wholesale carrier's incentives aren't perfectly aligned with your incentives, but they're not totally different.
- simfree 3y ago
  It's also common practice to hard drop abusive campaigns that do not respond to STOP, HELP and similar keywords at the provider's SMSC, and just collect the revenue from them texting your clients. The 10DLC cartel wants to fine instances of unsolicited text messaging up to $20,000 per instance, hence why there is a big pushback against registering with this unsanctioned, not FCC mandated organization called The Carrier Registry (TCR). TCR has been a nightmare to work with for those that do participate in their bureaucracy. You fill out pages of forms with everything from EINs/SSNs to the owners and co-owners of the firm and exact examples of what they plan to text, then 6 months or so later the TCR says "Oh, sucks to be you, we're invalidating all current registered companies, pay $50 to register again and fill out entirely different forms! Also, T-Mobile is tacking on a new inactivity fee of $xx a month per business if your client doesn't message a T-Mobile number every few days :D"
solardev 3y ago
In the US you can report them to the FCC: https://www.fcc.gov/rules-political-campaign-calls-and-texts https://www.fcc.gov/rules-political-campaign-calls-and-texts Keep in mind that sometimes they can skirt the rules by not using automation per se. Instead, they have a bunch of volunteers sit in a room (or online) with special apps that distribute a phone number list (often from NGPVan or the Republican equivalent, forget what it's called) between the individual devices. Then each human has to click "send" or "call". It still gets routed through their VOIP systems, but because there's a human in the loop, it's no longer fully automated... just like 90%, enough to get around the FCC rules. It's pretty sketch. I went to one of those volunteer parties before I realized that's what they're doing. Thankfully Google Fi does a really good job at blocking this kind of spam, texts or calls.
- troydavis 3y ago
  Just to clarify for anyone reading, this meets the FCC's requirements (ie, it's legal and the FCC won't do anything about it), but it generally is not allowed by the terms of use of the underlying wholesale carrier. So, you should still report it to the sending carrier. Background: Most larger, reputable US-based wholesale carriers have policies that are similar to the CTIA's guidelines for political campaigns: https://www.ctia.org/news/political-text-messaging-engaging-and-organizing-voters-while-protecting-consumers https://www.ctia.org/news/political-text-messaging-engaging-... . CTIA sets a much higher threshold, including opt-in permission. This is a bit like the FCC's definition of email spam (a very low bar - what's legal) vs. a mainstream email service provider's terms of use (a much higher bar - what they permit you to send through them).
  - solardev 3y ago
    Thanks for this clarification/differentiation!
aendruk 3y ago
I started receiving these in August and so far have filed 311 complaints with the FCC to no apparent effect.
- troydavis 3y ago
  I think reporting to the FCC is a waste of time (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34570065#34570669 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34570065#34570669). Following the steps on this site - reporting to the responsible carrier - is nowhere near perfect, but sure beats pretending like the FCC might do something.
barryrandall 3y ago
No. There are no requirements that politicians respect your communication preferences, honor your opt-out requests, or handle your data. At the end of the election cycle, everything is torn down, voter files get copied to local party databases, state party databases, federal party databases, preferred contractors for campaign infrastructure, any interested consultants, and on and on. There are no limits and the data handling reflects this. You can, at best, opt out from a given campaign for the current election cycle.

troydavis 3y ago

From firsthand experience, yes, it works for unsolicited political party donation messages. Not 100% of the time, but way more than 0%. These wholesale carriers know that recipients will flag unsolicited political messages as spam (to the recipient's wireless provider), and they don't want consumer wireless providers to block or heavily rate-limit messages from their phone numbers. The political campaigns cycle through phone numbers, so their unsolicited messages can "taint" many phone numbers - which will affect other customers' campaigns. The wholesale carrier's incentives aren't perfectly aligned with your incentives, but they're not totally different.

simfree 3y ago
It's also common practice to hard drop abusive campaigns that do not respond to STOP, HELP and similar keywords at the provider's SMSC, and just collect the revenue from them texting your clients. The 10DLC cartel wants to fine instances of unsolicited text messaging up to $20,000 per instance, hence why there is a big pushback against registering with this unsanctioned, not FCC mandated organization called The Carrier Registry (TCR). TCR has been a nightmare to work with for those that do participate in their bureaucracy. You fill out pages of forms with everything from EINs/SSNs to the owners and co-owners of the firm and exact examples of what they plan to text, then 6 months or so later the TCR says "Oh, sucks to be you, we're invalidating all current registered companies, pay $50 to register again and fill out entirely different forms! Also, T-Mobile is tacking on a new inactivity fee of $xx a month per business if your client doesn't message a T-Mobile number every few days :D"

solardev 3y ago

In the US you can report them to the FCC: https://www.fcc.gov/rules-political-campaign-calls-and-texts https://www.fcc.gov/rules-political-campaign-calls-and-texts Keep in mind that sometimes they can skirt the rules by not using automation per se. Instead, they have a bunch of volunteers sit in a room (or online) with special apps that distribute a phone number list (often from NGPVan or the Republican equivalent, forget what it's called) between the individual devices. Then each human has to click "send" or "call". It still gets routed through their VOIP systems, but because there's a human in the loop, it's no longer fully automated... just like 90%, enough to get around the FCC rules. It's pretty sketch. I went to one of those volunteer parties before I realized that's what they're doing. Thankfully Google Fi does a really good job at blocking this kind of spam, texts or calls.

troydavis 3y ago
Just to clarify for anyone reading, this meets the FCC's requirements (ie, it's legal and the FCC won't do anything about it), but it generally is not allowed by the terms of use of the underlying wholesale carrier. So, you should still report it to the sending carrier. Background: Most larger, reputable US-based wholesale carriers have policies that are similar to the CTIA's guidelines for political campaigns: https://www.ctia.org/news/political-text-messaging-engaging-and-organizing-voters-while-protecting-consumers https://www.ctia.org/news/political-text-messaging-engaging-... . CTIA sets a much higher threshold, including opt-in permission. This is a bit like the FCC's definition of email spam (a very low bar - what's legal) vs. a mainstream email service provider's terms of use (a much higher bar - what they permit you to send through them).
- solardev 3y ago
  Thanks for this clarification/differentiation!

aendruk 3y ago

I started receiving these in August and so far have filed 311 complaints with the FCC to no apparent effect.

troydavis 3y ago
I think reporting to the FCC is a waste of time (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34570065#34570669 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34570065#34570669). Following the steps on this site - reporting to the responsible carrier - is nowhere near perfect, but sure beats pretending like the FCC might do something.

barryrandall 3y ago

No. There are no requirements that politicians respect your communication preferences, honor your opt-out requests, or handle your data. At the end of the election cycle, everything is torn down, voter files get copied to local party databases, state party databases, federal party databases, preferred contractors for campaign infrastructure, any interested consultants, and on and on. There are no limits and the data handling reflects this. You can, at best, opt out from a given campaign for the current election cycle.