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Lobste.rs definitely feels like less of an echo chamber: both Reddit and HN have a large "I don't agree with you, downvote" population - on HN this is officiall

Lobste.rs definitely feels like less of an echo chamber: both Reddit and HN have a large "I don't agree with you, downvote" population - on HN this is officially endorsed as "correct" use too.

Rochus 3y ago
According to my experience rather on Lobsters participants seem to be mostly concerned with nagging. Rarely got a useful or positive comment for my posts there. There is a small circle of users who have a particularly good relationship with the admin and flag everything they don't like. I had much better discussions and more useful feedback on some subreddits. I agree that the downvoting possibility encourages misuse. There is no downvoting on Lobsters, but people instead flag whatever they don't like, even if there is objectively no violation of the site rules. Actually I would prefer a site where you can only upvote or flag, not downvote, but the admin in that case should charge people who misuse flagging.
- stephenr 3y ago
  Flagged as what though? Without seeing actual examples of posted articles that were flagged it's honestly impossible to make any judgement. Edit: I should point out that this isn't a hypothetical question either. As the moderation log is open, we can see exactly why a user was banned or post was removed etc.
  - Rochus 3y ago
    Unfortunately many examples; usually it starts with a "-1 spam", e.g. for this post: https://lobste.rs/s/ebztmj/now_we_know_which_cs_publication_used_term https://lobste.rs/s/ebztmj/now_we_know_which_cs_publication_... And if you then complain that the post doesn't violate house rules, you get some obviously wrong claims from someone of the inner circle why it does; if you then contradict to these claims or present facts, you usually get flagged for trolling, and eventually your comments are removed by the admin. I have still an account but don't spend more time there.
    - stephenr 3y ago
      > you get some obviously wrong claims I can't possibly imagine why you ever had a problem Edit: sorry I forgot to add the /s. I really thought it would be obvious this time.
      - Rochus 3y ago
        Well, I was (unfortunately) not surprised because it already happened with some posts before. There are some really destructive people there.
    - bb010g 3y ago
      As a Lobsters user, I think you could have avoided those spam flags with a less click-baity title and opening line of the body. “MIT CSG Memo 137 was the first CS publication to use the term "object-oriented"” would have been a better title, since you posted after the result was discovered. Also, Hillel Wayne already politely explained this to you! https://lobste.rs/s/ebztmj/now_we_know_which_cs_publication_used_term#c_ac0vel https://lobste.rs/s/ebztmj/now_we_know_which_cs_publication_...
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - Rochus 3y ago
        Which is obviously nonsense. But frankly, I have no desire to reopen this pointless debate. They shall be happy with their platform, just without me.
        metabagel 3y ago
        I don’t use lobsters, but I feel like it’s courteous to summarize and then link, which you did not do.
kbenson 3y ago
For what it's worth, I've found reddit and H distinctly different in the down voting behavior. Reddit will down vote on disagree (depending on subreddit) no matter how the info or opinion is presented, but in my experience where it appears HN is down voting on disagreement it's more that the presentation was too forceful. The biggest example of that IMO is people presenting opinions as fact rather than something to be explored. This can be subtle, and in conflict with how people debate or often discuss between two people, but given it's a public forum, a sprinkling of "I think" or "it seems to me" in in comments goes a long way towards not only not triggering some people into down voting, but also seems to promote more useful discussion around the topic as those or others seem more likely to voice their differences.
- corobo 3y ago
  > a sprinkling of "I think" or "it seems to me" in in comments goes a long way towards not only not triggering some people into down voting, but also seems to promote more useful discussion Agreed on this for sure. My comments used to get more downvoted (or at least less upvoted) before I started pointing out that they're just my opinion. Bonus if you mention your opinion on the subject is loosely held and open to correction (personally I love it when someone says something that causes my mind to change! Fresh neuron connections, free dopamine!) Originally I thought that people would just assume everything I wrote without citing any sources is my opinion but I guess folks just need to be reassured sometimes :)

Lobste.rs definitely feels like less of an echo chamber: both Reddit and HN have a large "I don't agree with you, downvote" population - on HN this is officially endorsed as "correct" use too.

Rochus 3y ago

According to my experience rather on Lobsters participants seem to be mostly concerned with nagging. Rarely got a useful or positive comment for my posts there. There is a small circle of users who have a particularly good relationship with the admin and flag everything they don't like. I had much better discussions and more useful feedback on some subreddits. I agree that the downvoting possibility encourages misuse. There is no downvoting on Lobsters, but people instead flag whatever they don't like, even if there is objectively no violation of the site rules. Actually I would prefer a site where you can only upvote or flag, not downvote, but the admin in that case should charge people who misuse flagging.

stephenr 3y ago
Flagged as what though? Without seeing actual examples of posted articles that were flagged it's honestly impossible to make any judgement. Edit: I should point out that this isn't a hypothetical question either. As the moderation log is open, we can see exactly why a user was banned or post was removed etc.
- Rochus 3y ago
  Unfortunately many examples; usually it starts with a "-1 spam", e.g. for this post: https://lobste.rs/s/ebztmj/now_we_know_which_cs_publication_used_term https://lobste.rs/s/ebztmj/now_we_know_which_cs_publication_... And if you then complain that the post doesn't violate house rules, you get some obviously wrong claims from someone of the inner circle why it does; if you then contradict to these claims or present facts, you usually get flagged for trolling, and eventually your comments are removed by the admin. I have still an account but don't spend more time there.
  - stephenr 3y ago
    > you get some obviously wrong claims I can't possibly imagine why you ever had a problem Edit: sorry I forgot to add the /s. I really thought it would be obvious this time.
    - Rochus 3y ago
      Well, I was (unfortunately) not surprised because it already happened with some posts before. There are some really destructive people there.
  - bb010g 3y ago
    As a Lobsters user, I think you could have avoided those spam flags with a less click-baity title and opening line of the body. “MIT CSG Memo 137 was the first CS publication to use the term "object-oriented"” would have been a better title, since you posted after the result was discovered. Also, Hillel Wayne already politely explained this to you! https://lobste.rs/s/ebztmj/now_we_know_which_cs_publication_used_term#c_ac0vel https://lobste.rs/s/ebztmj/now_we_know_which_cs_publication_...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - Rochus 3y ago
      Which is obviously nonsense. But frankly, I have no desire to reopen this pointless debate. They shall be happy with their platform, just without me.
      - metabagel 3y ago
        I don’t use lobsters, but I feel like it’s courteous to summarize and then link, which you did not do.

kbenson 3y ago

For what it's worth, I've found reddit and H distinctly different in the down voting behavior. Reddit will down vote on disagree (depending on subreddit) no matter how the info or opinion is presented, but in my experience where it appears HN is down voting on disagreement it's more that the presentation was too forceful. The biggest example of that IMO is people presenting opinions as fact rather than something to be explored. This can be subtle, and in conflict with how people debate or often discuss between two people, but given it's a public forum, a sprinkling of "I think" or "it seems to me" in in comments goes a long way towards not only not triggering some people into down voting, but also seems to promote more useful discussion around the topic as those or others seem more likely to voice their differences.

corobo 3y ago
> a sprinkling of "I think" or "it seems to me" in in comments goes a long way towards not only not triggering some people into down voting, but also seems to promote more useful discussion Agreed on this for sure. My comments used to get more downvoted (or at least less upvoted) before I started pointing out that they're just my opinion. Bonus if you mention your opinion on the subject is loosely held and open to correction (personally I love it when someone says something that causes my mind to change! Fresh neuron connections, free dopamine!) Originally I thought that people would just assume everything I wrote without citing any sources is my opinion but I guess folks just need to be reassured sometimes :)