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No this is less important than ease of use and the feeling of using a good premium product. Apple has demonstrated this in spades. What you present here is a pe

No this is less important than ease of use and the feeling of using a good premium product. Apple has demonstrated this in spades. What you present here is a personal opinion, but consumers in general want premium tools that work. All the side stuff like telemetry and morality are orthogonal to that goal.

c0pium 3y ago
The attitude that software freedom is what users crave above all else is the single most damaging thing about the desktop Linux movement.
- pixel8account 3y ago
  But this is what hobbyist developers care about, which is what ultimately matters.
  - corethree 3y ago
    Most web developers use mac. Only the most hardcore ones use linux. For gaming developers are pretty much majority windows developers. Developers go with what works. Linux works for web servers, so it's an option. It also works for desktop, but why aren't developers all using PCs with Linux installed? Same reason why ordinary people don't use linux. They want the premium feel. They don't like the jankiness that comes with linux. >which is what ultimately matters. This isn't true. What developers like is not what ultimately matters. We are a small portion of the overall population. It is the population of people that dictates what matters and if a developer wants to change the world they have to target the population. Why is javascript popular? Because most of the population uses javascript in their browsers. It had nothing to do with developers loving javascript. In fact, javascript is a pretty poorly designed language.
    - 29athrowaway 3y ago
      There is no reason to use macOS as a web developer unless you do graphic design.
      - corethree 3y ago
        You don't get out much do you? macOS is the overwhelming choice for web development, both front end and backend. Linux is a huge minority. I know your type. You're the type of guy who likes to characterize himself as an ultra rational automaton. And you carry yourself that way pretending why you don't understand why people would irrationally use anything other that linux for web development. Do you exclusively use vim too? No need for graphics or a gui or a mouse, all you need is letters? Yeah I can see it. I think the reality of it all is that you're just trying to be different, trying to act like you're better. But deep down you totally get why someone who's not a graphic designer would use a mac. I think there's one thing you don't know anymore though. The whole macs are only for "graphic designers" is a two decade old thing of the past. Macs are mainstream now. You go anywhere in silicon valley they will more likely be using a mac then they will windows or linux this goes for both developers and office workers. "Graphic design" isn't even a term that's used anymore, they call themselves UI/UX designers.
        29athrowaway 3y ago
        Leaving all your creative fiction aside, that's not the reason I use Linux. macOS is the overwhelming choice for those who do not want to know how things work, and are OK with being prevented from seeing how things work. macOS is the overwhelming choice for those who are OK with planned obsolescence, being denied their right to repair, and not having control over their property. macOS is the overwhelming choice for those that got into this for the money, not because of passion. The reason you need a supercomputer to run eyecandy versions of the same software you ran on a Pentium 100 MHz with 16 MB in RAM in the 90s. If you want to become a software engineer, and you don't want to know how things work: you are a commodity and generative AI will get your job in the next 3 years. If AI doesn't do it, then one of the millions of people learning how to code on YouTube will. Everything that you see as special about your code, will be offered for a fraction of a cent per token by an actual automaton. Most of the macOS users in Silicon valley (and elsewhere) run Linux on Docker, which will run slower on macOS than on Linux. As a macOS user, that performance tax will apply to everything you try to do as a developer. They also run Linux on all their production environments. So they're just making their life harder for no reason while thinking they're doing the opposite. If your production environment is Linux, you will still need to learn how Linux works, and on top of that you will have to learn how macOS works. Did you really simplify your life doing that?
    - lakomen 3y ago
      I didn't know I'm hardcore for using Linux to webdev TIL
29athrowaway 3y ago
To me, it is far easier to use than Windows and macOS. macOS is usable for the beginner, but it inconvenient for the power user to the point it is not ergonomic.
- corethree 3y ago
  [flagged]
29athrowaway 3y ago
Whatever "ease of use" mean to you, you got it somehow. To me if is HiDPI, which on macOS is intentionally sabotaged so you buy ultra expensive monitors. If it is the global menu, or some other UI style, it is there too.

c0pium 3y ago

The attitude that software freedom is what users crave above all else is the single most damaging thing about the desktop Linux movement.

pixel8account 3y ago
But this is what hobbyist developers care about, which is what ultimately matters.
- corethree 3y ago
  Most web developers use mac. Only the most hardcore ones use linux. For gaming developers are pretty much majority windows developers. Developers go with what works. Linux works for web servers, so it's an option. It also works for desktop, but why aren't developers all using PCs with Linux installed? Same reason why ordinary people don't use linux. They want the premium feel. They don't like the jankiness that comes with linux. >which is what ultimately matters. This isn't true. What developers like is not what ultimately matters. We are a small portion of the overall population. It is the population of people that dictates what matters and if a developer wants to change the world they have to target the population. Why is javascript popular? Because most of the population uses javascript in their browsers. It had nothing to do with developers loving javascript. In fact, javascript is a pretty poorly designed language.
  - 29athrowaway 3y ago
    There is no reason to use macOS as a web developer unless you do graphic design.
    - corethree 3y ago
      You don't get out much do you? macOS is the overwhelming choice for web development, both front end and backend. Linux is a huge minority. I know your type. You're the type of guy who likes to characterize himself as an ultra rational automaton. And you carry yourself that way pretending why you don't understand why people would irrationally use anything other that linux for web development. Do you exclusively use vim too? No need for graphics or a gui or a mouse, all you need is letters? Yeah I can see it. I think the reality of it all is that you're just trying to be different, trying to act like you're better. But deep down you totally get why someone who's not a graphic designer would use a mac. I think there's one thing you don't know anymore though. The whole macs are only for "graphic designers" is a two decade old thing of the past. Macs are mainstream now. You go anywhere in silicon valley they will more likely be using a mac then they will windows or linux this goes for both developers and office workers. "Graphic design" isn't even a term that's used anymore, they call themselves UI/UX designers.
      - 29athrowaway 3y ago
        Leaving all your creative fiction aside, that's not the reason I use Linux. macOS is the overwhelming choice for those who do not want to know how things work, and are OK with being prevented from seeing how things work. macOS is the overwhelming choice for those who are OK with planned obsolescence, being denied their right to repair, and not having control over their property. macOS is the overwhelming choice for those that got into this for the money, not because of passion. The reason you need a supercomputer to run eyecandy versions of the same software you ran on a Pentium 100 MHz with 16 MB in RAM in the 90s. If you want to become a software engineer, and you don't want to know how things work: you are a commodity and generative AI will get your job in the next 3 years. If AI doesn't do it, then one of the millions of people learning how to code on YouTube will. Everything that you see as special about your code, will be offered for a fraction of a cent per token by an actual automaton. Most of the macOS users in Silicon valley (and elsewhere) run Linux on Docker, which will run slower on macOS than on Linux. As a macOS user, that performance tax will apply to everything you try to do as a developer. They also run Linux on all their production environments. So they're just making their life harder for no reason while thinking they're doing the opposite. If your production environment is Linux, you will still need to learn how Linux works, and on top of that you will have to learn how macOS works. Did you really simplify your life doing that?
  - lakomen 3y ago
    I didn't know I'm hardcore for using Linux to webdev TIL

29athrowaway 3y ago

To me, it is far easier to use than Windows and macOS. macOS is usable for the beginner, but it inconvenient for the power user to the point it is not ergonomic.

corethree 3y ago
[flagged]

29athrowaway 3y ago

Whatever "ease of use" mean to you, you got it somehow. To me if is HiDPI, which on macOS is intentionally sabotaged so you buy ultra expensive monitors. If it is the global menu, or some other UI style, it is there too.