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IMO C/C++ are great languages if you learn how memory and pointers etc. work. The tooling on the other hand is horrendous when you compare it to other languages

IMO C/C++ are great languages if you learn how memory and pointers etc. work. The tooling on the other hand is horrendous when you compare it to other languages like Rust.

zik 3y ago
You don't really need to do much explicit memory handling in modern C++ - smart pointers feel similar to garbage collected languages like Java or Go, with the occasional extra '*' I guess. Comparing language tooling to Rust is surely controversial when compiles in Rust take an order of magnitude longer than any other language. Sure, Rust's tooling has some nice features but let's not ignore this very important elephant in the room.
- bilkow 3y ago
  > Comparing language tooling to Rust is surely controversial when compiles in Rust take an order of magnitude longer than any other language. Do you have any source for that other than a hello world? I always read that both C++ and Rust take about the same amount of time.
  - lowq 3y ago
    Hang on just a sec Updating crates.io index Fetch [> ] 0.12%
    - lifthrasiir 3y ago
      Cargo is i) not a compiler, and ii) moving to the sparse index protocol [1] that do not fetch the whole index anyway. And even the older git protocol won't fetch the same data twice. [1] https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/cargo/reference/registry-index.html#sparse-protocol https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/cargo/reference/registry-i...
      - lowq 3y ago
        As a fairly avid Rust user I can say I'm excited to hear that! Just playing a little devil's advocate for fun. That said I was moderately upset by this Friday after carefully assembling a development container for a project at work. Guess I'll have to make something persistent somewhere if I don't want to twiddle my thumbs before each build.
        lifthrasiir 3y ago
        Cargo or not you probably should do that for your container, or use a shared cache (which I do at work for both Cargo and pip) ;-)
- flykespice 3y ago
  > Comparing language tooling to Rust is surely controversial when compiles in Rust take an order of magnitude longer than any other language. The great benefits brought by having a standard tooling that actually has useful diagnostic and packaging makes any kind of slowdown tolerable. Unless you code holding your piss.

IMO C/C++ are great languages if you learn how memory and pointers etc. work. The tooling on the other hand is horrendous when you compare it to other languages like Rust.

zik 3y ago

You don't really need to do much explicit memory handling in modern C++ - smart pointers feel similar to garbage collected languages like Java or Go, with the occasional extra '*' I guess. Comparing language tooling to Rust is surely controversial when compiles in Rust take an order of magnitude longer than any other language. Sure, Rust's tooling has some nice features but let's not ignore this very important elephant in the room.

bilkow 3y ago
> Comparing language tooling to Rust is surely controversial when compiles in Rust take an order of magnitude longer than any other language. Do you have any source for that other than a hello world? I always read that both C++ and Rust take about the same amount of time.
- lowq 3y ago
  Hang on just a sec Updating crates.io index Fetch [> ] 0.12%
  - lifthrasiir 3y ago
    Cargo is i) not a compiler, and ii) moving to the sparse index protocol [1] that do not fetch the whole index anyway. And even the older git protocol won't fetch the same data twice. [1] https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/cargo/reference/registry-index.html#sparse-protocol https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/cargo/reference/registry-i...
    - lowq 3y ago
      As a fairly avid Rust user I can say I'm excited to hear that! Just playing a little devil's advocate for fun. That said I was moderately upset by this Friday after carefully assembling a development container for a project at work. Guess I'll have to make something persistent somewhere if I don't want to twiddle my thumbs before each build.
      - lifthrasiir 3y ago
        Cargo or not you probably should do that for your container, or use a shared cache (which I do at work for both Cargo and pip) ;-)
flykespice 3y ago
> Comparing language tooling to Rust is surely controversial when compiles in Rust take an order of magnitude longer than any other language. The great benefits brought by having a standard tooling that actually has useful diagnostic and packaging makes any kind of slowdown tolerable. Unless you code holding your piss.