5 ms·

Seems irresponsible to advertise to anyone who doesn’t have an understanding of deep learning methods. A big part of therapy is simply getting patients out of t

Seems irresponsible to advertise to anyone who doesn’t have an understanding of deep learning methods. A big part of therapy is simply getting patients out of the house and interacting with another human being for a time. LLM’s could speak identically and still have failed at providing that. Hence, not good to suggest it as a cheaper/free option in my opinion. Having said that, people tend to try to make these a subscription service, while this indeed appears to be entirely free ignoring openAI costs. Still I think if you’re not careful someone might get hurt or might get worse care than they otherwise would have because of the appeal of lower prices.

marjipan200 3y ago
I understand that line of thought, but feel differently. Maybe this could be worded more clearly, but it's stated in the REAMDE that ChatCBT is not intended to be a replacement for professional therapy or human interaction, rather a supplement. ChatCBT is just a journaling tool, similar to the CBT worksheets therapists give patients for their emotional toolkits, but more interactive to help you get out of your head a bit. Frankly, not everyone can afford therapy - monetarily, or in terms of the emotional availability of the friends and family around them. I agree with you human interaction is important. But journaling is also a form of therapy. I don't intend to monetize this, and would prefer it be a free tool that helps people to not need it anymore.
- ShamelessC 3y ago
  > I understand that line of thought, but feel differently. Maybe this could be worded more clearly I think changing the name and general "stated goal" (AI powered CBT) would go a long way toward reducing confusion and improving outcomes/expectations. Cognitive-behavioral journaling might be a step closer to what you're actually doing and a step away from having handed someone in a very fragile state the tools to worsen that state (whether that is your goal or not). In particular I'm reminded that people like Blake Lemoyne exist, who struggle far more than I or the typical HN'er when it comes to understanding that these LLM's are indeed very much _not_ alive, thinking, sentient, emotional, whatever. Someone who is experiencing delusional thinking already may actually be advised to go nowhere near an LLM, in much the same way we now know that social media can actively harm one's mental health. Mostly I think people can and will use tools like this because it's their right to. I just think the "pitch" (I know you aren't monetizing) is strange and risky. To your point about those who can't afford therapy - I don't see how that justifies participation with an experimental tool simply because it is cheaper. Even if you were a qualified health professional (there are many trying to make these type of apps), you really do need to go through the red tape that is government oversight and consensus within the field of psychiatry. This will take years.
  - marjipan200 3y ago
    Noted. I can update the README to emphasize that it is a journaling tool. edit - done!
    - ShamelessC 3y ago
      Thanks!
  - mewpmewp2 3y ago
    On the other hand if a tool like this can help, it would be bad not to use it. I have been developing my own life assistant using GPT-4 and I use it interactively and have found the therapeutic effect of it absolutely beyond amazing helping me get through self doubt and making decisions in life without regrets. I also do therapy and I think it is actually a lot more powerful than a therapist. It can understand technical challenges and problems I face much better than a therapist can who can mostly only give me generic advice, but to an LLM I can discuss daily down to most intricate details about my problems. I am so glad something like that exists now. I know nothing else that has been so effective in combatting overthinking and unnecessary self doubt. And I have usually been disappointed and frustrated with real therapy.
Takennickname 3y ago
[flagged]
- ShamelessC 3y ago
  Go away, troll.
  - Takennickname 3y ago
    It doesn't matter how you dress up the comments above, the intention is clear.
    - ShamelessC 3y ago
      Yeah you’re right I was jealous. How did you figure it out?
      - Takennickname 3y ago
        Ask ChatCBT
- marjipan200 3y ago
  I think they raised an important point and appreciate the call out to make the aim clearer
StableAlkyne 3y ago
The benefit here is that you can at least unpack stuff you aren't comfortable talking to a therapist about. The "it's free" thing isn't the real benefit. The other important thing to look at is that mental healthcare in the US is still heavily stigmatized. There are professions that actively punish people who seek help, like the military or civil flight - a 35-year pilot a few years away from retirement just won't, for example. A 17 year old kid whose family all served in the military, who wants to also do it, will probably be advised against seeking therapy because certain labels lock you out of the career path. And life insurance can and will deny you coverage if you have conditions like anxiety or depression. Even if you can afford it, you can end up risking the livelihood of you (career options) or those you care about (a stay at home spouse who needs the insurance if something happens to you). Therapy is important, and I wholeheartedly agree with you: people should go see a real human and get out of the house. It's the healthiest option, and least risky from a health perspective. But even if an LLM is worse than a real licensed therapist and just helps you "talk" about things, I can understand why someone might feel that is the only realistic option under the poor system we live in.

marjipan200 3y ago

I understand that line of thought, but feel differently. Maybe this could be worded more clearly, but it's stated in the REAMDE that ChatCBT is not intended to be a replacement for professional therapy or human interaction, rather a supplement. ChatCBT is just a journaling tool, similar to the CBT worksheets therapists give patients for their emotional toolkits, but more interactive to help you get out of your head a bit. Frankly, not everyone can afford therapy - monetarily, or in terms of the emotional availability of the friends and family around them. I agree with you human interaction is important. But journaling is also a form of therapy. I don't intend to monetize this, and would prefer it be a free tool that helps people to not need it anymore.

ShamelessC 3y ago
> I understand that line of thought, but feel differently. Maybe this could be worded more clearly I think changing the name and general "stated goal" (AI powered CBT) would go a long way toward reducing confusion and improving outcomes/expectations. Cognitive-behavioral journaling might be a step closer to what you're actually doing and a step away from having handed someone in a very fragile state the tools to worsen that state (whether that is your goal or not). In particular I'm reminded that people like Blake Lemoyne exist, who struggle far more than I or the typical HN'er when it comes to understanding that these LLM's are indeed very much _not_ alive, thinking, sentient, emotional, whatever. Someone who is experiencing delusional thinking already may actually be advised to go nowhere near an LLM, in much the same way we now know that social media can actively harm one's mental health. Mostly I think people can and will use tools like this because it's their right to. I just think the "pitch" (I know you aren't monetizing) is strange and risky. To your point about those who can't afford therapy - I don't see how that justifies participation with an experimental tool simply because it is cheaper. Even if you were a qualified health professional (there are many trying to make these type of apps), you really do need to go through the red tape that is government oversight and consensus within the field of psychiatry. This will take years.
- marjipan200 3y ago
  Noted. I can update the README to emphasize that it is a journaling tool. edit - done!
  - ShamelessC 3y ago
    Thanks!
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  On the other hand if a tool like this can help, it would be bad not to use it. I have been developing my own life assistant using GPT-4 and I use it interactively and have found the therapeutic effect of it absolutely beyond amazing helping me get through self doubt and making decisions in life without regrets. I also do therapy and I think it is actually a lot more powerful than a therapist. It can understand technical challenges and problems I face much better than a therapist can who can mostly only give me generic advice, but to an LLM I can discuss daily down to most intricate details about my problems. I am so glad something like that exists now. I know nothing else that has been so effective in combatting overthinking and unnecessary self doubt. And I have usually been disappointed and frustrated with real therapy.

Takennickname 3y ago

[flagged]

ShamelessC 3y ago
Go away, troll.
- Takennickname 3y ago
  It doesn't matter how you dress up the comments above, the intention is clear.
  - ShamelessC 3y ago
    Yeah you’re right I was jealous. How did you figure it out?
    - Takennickname 3y ago
      Ask ChatCBT
marjipan200 3y ago
I think they raised an important point and appreciate the call out to make the aim clearer

StableAlkyne 3y ago

The benefit here is that you can at least unpack stuff you aren't comfortable talking to a therapist about. The "it's free" thing isn't the real benefit. The other important thing to look at is that mental healthcare in the US is still heavily stigmatized. There are professions that actively punish people who seek help, like the military or civil flight - a 35-year pilot a few years away from retirement just won't, for example. A 17 year old kid whose family all served in the military, who wants to also do it, will probably be advised against seeking therapy because certain labels lock you out of the career path. And life insurance can and will deny you coverage if you have conditions like anxiety or depression. Even if you can afford it, you can end up risking the livelihood of you (career options) or those you care about (a stay at home spouse who needs the insurance if something happens to you). Therapy is important, and I wholeheartedly agree with you: people should go see a real human and get out of the house. It's the healthiest option, and least risky from a health perspective. But even if an LLM is worse than a real licensed therapist and just helps you "talk" about things, I can understand why someone might feel that is the only realistic option under the poor system we live in.