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500,000 Ukrainian casualties

jonnycomputer 3y ago
What could you possibly mean? Blame Russia for Ukrainian casualties.
dralley 3y ago
1) citation needed 2) how many would it be if we were not providing them with assistance? Do you think they're just going to roll over and capitulate if the US turns off the tap? They didn't do that in the first few days of the war when they had very little assistance and practically none of their allies believed they would last the week, why would that happen now?
- nvoeiah 3y ago
  >how many would it be if we were not providing them with assistance? Do you think they're just going to roll over and capitulate if the US turns off the tap? Seems like it? What else would they do? Just look at what's happening, they are going to end up losing anyway despite the amount of money that the West has been giving them. (4 days ago) https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/at-what-cost-ukraine-strains-bolster-its-army-war-fatigue-weighs-2023-11-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/at-what-cost-ukraine-st...
  - dralley 3y ago
    War sucks. Yes, soldiers are tired. How does that article imply that they are "losing" relative to Russia? Do you think the Russians assaulting Avdiivka right now are having a great time? I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
- khzw8yyy 3y ago
  Yeah, Ukraine continues to fight mostly because the West tell them to. There was an early attempt at peace talks that was sabotaged. https://meduza.io/amp/en/news/2023/11/25/head-of-ukraine-delegation-at-spring-2022-peace-talks-confirms-russian-delegation-offered-to-end-war-if-ukraine-abandoned-nato-aspirations-says-leaders-had-no-trust-russia-would-follow-through https://meduza.io/amp/en/news/2023/11/25/head-of-ukraine-del... Meduza is a pro-western publication, blocked in Russia, and can in no way be called a tool of Russian propaganda.
  - dralley 3y ago
    >Meduza is a pro-western publication, blocked in Russia, and can in no way be called a tool of Russian propaganda. That article doesn't make the claim that you claim it does. In fact it actually makes an opposite claim. "Moreover, there was “no trust” from Ukrainian authorities that the Russian side would follow through." Russia has betrayed their "deals" with Ukraine many many many times. Of course Ukrainian and "Western" authorities have no trust that Russia will uphold them "this time". YOU cannot claim that Ukraine "continues to fight mostly because the West tells them to" while completely ignoring their actual opinions on the matter. You do not appear to have actually seeked out their opinions on this matter. And their opinions on the matter are clear: 60% of the Ukrainian population supports continuing to fight. That's slightly down from 70% a few months ago, but still pretty high. Around this time last year, it was around 90%. There is and was a strong desire to continue resisting. To claim that "the West makes them" is fucking farcical, and yes, Russian propaganda, for which you have provided no substantiation. https://news.gallup.com/poll/512258/ukrainians-stand-behind-war-effort-despite-fatigue.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/512258/ukrainians-stand-behind-...
    - khzw8yyy 3y ago
      So if support is so high, why suppress the elections in Ukraine? And by the way, the article alludes to the exact opposite "betrayal": the peace talks were a sham to get Russia to pull back from Kiev.
      - dralley 3y ago
        "suppress?" Most Ukrainian don't want to hold an election right now! https://www.kyivpost.com/post/23427 https://www.kyivpost.com/post/23427 It's literally in their constitution not to hold an election during wartime! There are legal issues with doing so! Even disregarding the practical issues! https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-democracy-wartime-elections-russia-zelensky/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-democracy-warti... Stop pretending you have any idea what Ukrainians are thinking right now. You're obviously extrapolating from your own interpretation of headlines and not even bothering to look for a primary source or even reading the details of whatever sources you are reading - that is completely absurd.

What could you possibly mean? Blame Russia for Ukrainian casualties.

1) citation needed 2) how many would it be if we were not providing them with assistance? Do you think they're just going to roll over and capitulate if the US turns off the tap? They didn't do that in the first few days of the war when they had very little assistance and practically none of their allies believed they would last the week, why would that happen now?

nvoeiah 3y ago
>how many would it be if we were not providing them with assistance? Do you think they're just going to roll over and capitulate if the US turns off the tap? Seems like it? What else would they do? Just look at what's happening, they are going to end up losing anyway despite the amount of money that the West has been giving them. (4 days ago) https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/at-what-cost-ukraine-strains-bolster-its-army-war-fatigue-weighs-2023-11-28/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/at-what-cost-ukraine-st...
- dralley 3y ago
  War sucks. Yes, soldiers are tired. How does that article imply that they are "losing" relative to Russia? Do you think the Russians assaulting Avdiivka right now are having a great time? I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
khzw8yyy 3y ago
Yeah, Ukraine continues to fight mostly because the West tell them to. There was an early attempt at peace talks that was sabotaged. https://meduza.io/amp/en/news/2023/11/25/head-of-ukraine-delegation-at-spring-2022-peace-talks-confirms-russian-delegation-offered-to-end-war-if-ukraine-abandoned-nato-aspirations-says-leaders-had-no-trust-russia-would-follow-through https://meduza.io/amp/en/news/2023/11/25/head-of-ukraine-del... Meduza is a pro-western publication, blocked in Russia, and can in no way be called a tool of Russian propaganda.
- dralley 3y ago
  >Meduza is a pro-western publication, blocked in Russia, and can in no way be called a tool of Russian propaganda. That article doesn't make the claim that you claim it does. In fact it actually makes an opposite claim. "Moreover, there was “no trust” from Ukrainian authorities that the Russian side would follow through." Russia has betrayed their "deals" with Ukraine many many many times. Of course Ukrainian and "Western" authorities have no trust that Russia will uphold them "this time". YOU cannot claim that Ukraine "continues to fight mostly because the West tells them to" while completely ignoring their actual opinions on the matter. You do not appear to have actually seeked out their opinions on this matter. And their opinions on the matter are clear: 60% of the Ukrainian population supports continuing to fight. That's slightly down from 70% a few months ago, but still pretty high. Around this time last year, it was around 90%. There is and was a strong desire to continue resisting. To claim that "the West makes them" is fucking farcical, and yes, Russian propaganda, for which you have provided no substantiation. https://news.gallup.com/poll/512258/ukrainians-stand-behind-war-effort-despite-fatigue.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/512258/ukrainians-stand-behind-...
  - khzw8yyy 3y ago
    So if support is so high, why suppress the elections in Ukraine? And by the way, the article alludes to the exact opposite "betrayal": the peace talks were a sham to get Russia to pull back from Kiev.
    - dralley 3y ago
      "suppress?" Most Ukrainian don't want to hold an election right now! https://www.kyivpost.com/post/23427 https://www.kyivpost.com/post/23427 It's literally in their constitution not to hold an election during wartime! There are legal issues with doing so! Even disregarding the practical issues! https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-democracy-wartime-elections-russia-zelensky/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-democracy-warti... Stop pretending you have any idea what Ukrainians are thinking right now. You're obviously extrapolating from your own interpretation of headlines and not even bothering to look for a primary source or even reading the details of whatever sources you are reading - that is completely absurd.