3 ms·

Is post-scarcity of cute kittens really such a bad thing? I think it's better to take a somewhat stoic view of things, you can't control the world and what hap

by Drakim 3y ago

Is post-scarcity of cute kittens really such a bad thing? I think it's better to take a somewhat stoic view of things, you can't control the world and what happens, technology will always advance, but you can decide how you will react to it. There is nobody except yourself that's stopping yourself from enjoying collecting kittens, AI or non-AI ones.

TuringNYC 3y ago
True, but it seems they no longer need to be collected at all. You can generate them in infinite varieties. Cuteness is an MJ prompt away.
- Drakim 3y ago
  I also don't have to toil the earth for sustenance. I'm sure there are a lot of valuable aspects to a life of living off the earth with the effort of your two hands, and those things are lost when society grows so advanced that I can now sit in front of a computer and do mathematics instead of toiling the earth. But does that mean that producing an abundance of food is a bad thing?
s1artibartfast 3y ago
Surely people can change behavior, but nonetheless is it also true that AI strips the meaning and value out of some parts of life. This is not a new phenomenon, but a result of technology and change itself. If scarcity is the point of collecting, post-scarcity destroys the point. You may find a new one, but it is not the same.
- Drakim 3y ago
  AI can only strip meaning and value out of those parts of your life if you let it. If you made the meaning you derive from life very conditional upon factors outside your control, you were always sailing in rocky waters to begin with.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I disagree on both counts. For the first, to deny that the world has changed is delusional. For the second, I think a life of such Stoicism or Lucretianism is not one to be desired. It precludes valuing anything outside yourself. Lucretius himself said one should not love other people for the very reasons you state, they might die or leave you. Is such self reliance more valuable than what one stands to lose? So what if one is sailing in rocky waters? You can still have important insights on what can be gained, lament the loss of your crew, and have opinions on the changing conditions of the sea.
kredd 3y ago
I wouldn’t call it post-scarcity, since kitten pics have never been hard to find. But the idea of “someone chasing their cat to sit for a second to take a cute pic” is what warms my heart. I know, art blah blah, but without “behind the scenes feeling” there’s just emptiness. And I am saying this as a person who has absolutely zero sense of art.
- Drakim 3y ago
  Consider an old man who hates the fact that you could find kitty pictures online as easily as we have been doing for the last 15 years. He thinks that a true authentic encounter with a kitty out in nature is the only real way to experience a kitty, and that you have throw that all away in favor of pictures. What can you say to refute such an argument without also refuting your own foothold here?
  - kredd 3y ago
    I can't refute such statement, because in my opinion encountering a real kitty in the nature is better. Not everything is black and white (like some kittens!) in this scenario. In my mind I would rank these experiences in such way: 1. Playing with cats in real life 2. Looking at real cat pics where a person took a photo 3. AI generated cat pics It's similar to going to a concert and watching a video of the concert. You obviously won't get the same buzz from the latter. So, if my theoretical feed consists of just the 3rd one, I am losing the enjoyment from the 2nd. I think that comparison also doesn't fit in though, as AI doesn't really replace "feelings you get from real life encounters" (for now at least) anyways. It only fights for the the spot in the digital content world. One thing that sometimes I catch myself thinking in the past few months when I see any pic online is asking myself "is this actually real?". Even for pictures that are most likely real. I never used to do that in the past, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.
boppo1 3y ago
With real kitten pics, you know that somewhere out there, there are kittens. But with AI gen'd kittens, you could be potentially unaware of a worldwide kitten cleansing. Imagine a world where your grey cubicle is bearable because you know there are kittens somewhere, but the reality is it's nothing but grey cubicles the world over and all the kittens are long gone.
dougb5 3y ago
Stoicism is good, but as technologists we do have some some say in the matter. The people who are most willfully accelerating us toward their utopia will say things like: "A big secret is that you can bend the world to your will a surprising percentage of the time." [1] If we don't like the way that AI is dehumanizing us, can't we fight back, and shouldn't we? [1] https://blog.samaltman.com/how-to-be-successful https://blog.samaltman.com/how-to-be-successful
- Drakim 3y ago
  I very much agree, but we have to fight by moving forward, not by rewinding back to olden days. The genie isn't going back into the bottle, but we can learn to live and love in a post-genie world instead.

by Drakim 3y ago

TuringNYC 3y ago

True, but it seems they no longer need to be collected at all. You can generate them in infinite varieties. Cuteness is an MJ prompt away.

Drakim 3y ago
I also don't have to toil the earth for sustenance. I'm sure there are a lot of valuable aspects to a life of living off the earth with the effort of your two hands, and those things are lost when society grows so advanced that I can now sit in front of a computer and do mathematics instead of toiling the earth. But does that mean that producing an abundance of food is a bad thing?

s1artibartfast 3y ago

Surely people can change behavior, but nonetheless is it also true that AI strips the meaning and value out of some parts of life. This is not a new phenomenon, but a result of technology and change itself. If scarcity is the point of collecting, post-scarcity destroys the point. You may find a new one, but it is not the same.

Drakim 3y ago
AI can only strip meaning and value out of those parts of your life if you let it. If you made the meaning you derive from life very conditional upon factors outside your control, you were always sailing in rocky waters to begin with.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I disagree on both counts. For the first, to deny that the world has changed is delusional. For the second, I think a life of such Stoicism or Lucretianism is not one to be desired. It precludes valuing anything outside yourself. Lucretius himself said one should not love other people for the very reasons you state, they might die or leave you. Is such self reliance more valuable than what one stands to lose? So what if one is sailing in rocky waters? You can still have important insights on what can be gained, lament the loss of your crew, and have opinions on the changing conditions of the sea.

kredd 3y ago

I wouldn’t call it post-scarcity, since kitten pics have never been hard to find. But the idea of “someone chasing their cat to sit for a second to take a cute pic” is what warms my heart. I know, art blah blah, but without “behind the scenes feeling” there’s just emptiness. And I am saying this as a person who has absolutely zero sense of art.

Drakim 3y ago
Consider an old man who hates the fact that you could find kitty pictures online as easily as we have been doing for the last 15 years. He thinks that a true authentic encounter with a kitty out in nature is the only real way to experience a kitty, and that you have throw that all away in favor of pictures. What can you say to refute such an argument without also refuting your own foothold here?
- kredd 3y ago
  I can't refute such statement, because in my opinion encountering a real kitty in the nature is better. Not everything is black and white (like some kittens!) in this scenario. In my mind I would rank these experiences in such way: 1. Playing with cats in real life 2. Looking at real cat pics where a person took a photo 3. AI generated cat pics It's similar to going to a concert and watching a video of the concert. You obviously won't get the same buzz from the latter. So, if my theoretical feed consists of just the 3rd one, I am losing the enjoyment from the 2nd. I think that comparison also doesn't fit in though, as AI doesn't really replace "feelings you get from real life encounters" (for now at least) anyways. It only fights for the the spot in the digital content world. One thing that sometimes I catch myself thinking in the past few months when I see any pic online is asking myself "is this actually real?". Even for pictures that are most likely real. I never used to do that in the past, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

boppo1 3y ago

With real kitten pics, you know that somewhere out there, there are kittens. But with AI gen'd kittens, you could be potentially unaware of a worldwide kitten cleansing. Imagine a world where your grey cubicle is bearable because you know there are kittens somewhere, but the reality is it's nothing but grey cubicles the world over and all the kittens are long gone.

dougb5 3y ago

Stoicism is good, but as technologists we do have some some say in the matter. The people who are most willfully accelerating us toward their utopia will say things like: "A big secret is that you can bend the world to your will a surprising percentage of the time." [1] If we don't like the way that AI is dehumanizing us, can't we fight back, and shouldn't we? [1] https://blog.samaltman.com/how-to-be-successful https://blog.samaltman.com/how-to-be-successful

Drakim 3y ago
I very much agree, but we have to fight by moving forward, not by rewinding back to olden days. The genie isn't going back into the bottle, but we can learn to live and love in a post-genie world instead.