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Thanks for posting. I really disliked this article when I read it earlier. It seems to unquestionably assume that the official calculations reflect reality fo

by nkurz 3y ago

Thanks for posting. I really disliked this article when I read it earlier. It seems to unquestionably assume that the official calculations reflect reality for real Americans. When 63% of the people being surveyed say that someone on a median income "could afford a better lifestyle a year ago", I think it's offensive to dismiss this by just saying "They're wrong" just because government proclamations say otherwise. Yes, there is probably a political component to people's answers, but the interesting story here is looking at the details rather than just blindly claiming the statistics are right and the deplorables are wrong.

retrac 3y ago
A good majority of Americans believe violent crime is increasing. They have believed this consistently, for decades. The average American has experience with crime, either directly or through their social circle. Is it offensive to dismiss their beliefs as just wrong? With any particular individual, maybe it is dismissive of the fact their cousin got robbed last year. That will feel more real than any statistics. But the statistics are clear: they are incorrect and violent crime has been decreasing steadily over the entire period they thought it was going up. No one seems to find this observation offensive to "the deplorables". So why would it be offensive to suggest the average person is just as out-of-touch about economic performance? I think it would be odd if they weren't, given they form the picture in a similar way they do for crime (primarily, but not exclusively, through the media and social gossip).
- nkurz 3y ago
  Good questions. I may be wrong to use the word "offensive", but I'm equally bothered by the treatment of the questions on crime. Sometimes people are simply wrong, and sometimes they are answering the question they think you are asking, or even the question they want you to be asking. So if you were to narrow it down to "According to official statistics has the US murder rate increased or decreased on a national level" you might get a different answer than "Is violent crime increasing?" even if you think the questions are the same. It's not that I think that survey answers are always right, it's that I think the interesting story is about where and why the answers differ from the statistics. My offense is that the the author seems uninterested in this angle, and just keeps bludgeoning the reader with the claim that the respondees are wrong. On the crime question, someone recently pointed out this interesting article from a decade ago regarding the drop in the murder rate in Chicago: https://www.chicagomag.com/chicago-magazine/chicago-crime-statistics/chicago-crime-rates/ https://www.chicagomag.com/chicago-magazine/chicago-crime-st.... No, I don't think this means the "feels" are always right, but I do think this shows the degree of depth at which we should be talking about the issues. Edit: So I'm not totally negative, here's an example of an article parallel to the submission that I think does a better job: https://apnews.com/article/economy-inflation-prices-jobs-income-recession-unemployment-e9e96643d8a1eb3ab2f57810219b8324 https://apnews.com/article/economy-inflation-prices-jobs-inc...

by nkurz 3y ago

retrac 3y ago

A good majority of Americans believe violent crime is increasing. They have believed this consistently, for decades. The average American has experience with crime, either directly or through their social circle. Is it offensive to dismiss their beliefs as just wrong? With any particular individual, maybe it is dismissive of the fact their cousin got robbed last year. That will feel more real than any statistics. But the statistics are clear: they are incorrect and violent crime has been decreasing steadily over the entire period they thought it was going up. No one seems to find this observation offensive to "the deplorables". So why would it be offensive to suggest the average person is just as out-of-touch about economic performance? I think it would be odd if they weren't, given they form the picture in a similar way they do for crime (primarily, but not exclusively, through the media and social gossip).

nkurz 3y ago
Good questions. I may be wrong to use the word "offensive", but I'm equally bothered by the treatment of the questions on crime. Sometimes people are simply wrong, and sometimes they are answering the question they think you are asking, or even the question they want you to be asking. So if you were to narrow it down to "According to official statistics has the US murder rate increased or decreased on a national level" you might get a different answer than "Is violent crime increasing?" even if you think the questions are the same. It's not that I think that survey answers are always right, it's that I think the interesting story is about where and why the answers differ from the statistics. My offense is that the the author seems uninterested in this angle, and just keeps bludgeoning the reader with the claim that the respondees are wrong. On the crime question, someone recently pointed out this interesting article from a decade ago regarding the drop in the murder rate in Chicago: https://www.chicagomag.com/chicago-magazine/chicago-crime-statistics/chicago-crime-rates/ https://www.chicagomag.com/chicago-magazine/chicago-crime-st.... No, I don't think this means the "feels" are always right, but I do think this shows the degree of depth at which we should be talking about the issues. Edit: So I'm not totally negative, here's an example of an article parallel to the submission that I think does a better job: https://apnews.com/article/economy-inflation-prices-jobs-income-recession-unemployment-e9e96643d8a1eb3ab2f57810219b8324 https://apnews.com/article/economy-inflation-prices-jobs-inc...