7 ms·

But not Germany.

by Equiet 3y ago

But not Germany.

mplewis9z 3y ago
Technically, Germany has already met their share of the requirements, well ahead of schedule.
- whatisyour 3y ago
  https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230130-1 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/d... Germany is prety high up there.
  - mplewis9z 3y ago
    (You missed the joke that they’ve already managed to triple their current nuclear capacity… i.e. 0 x 3 = 0)
butler14 3y ago
My immediate reaction too — zero surprise of course but it’s ridiculous given recent events
- _Microft 3y ago
  The dependency on Russian gas was bad but Russia is also controlling 40% of the worlds uranium conversion capacities. https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-nuclear-power-industry-graphics/32014247.html https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-nuclear-power-industry-graphi...
  - rciorba 3y ago
    CANDU reactors use un-enriched Uranium. Technology exists, and has been in use for half a century.
    - jansan 3y ago
      But the German government has stopped ALL research in nuclear power usage. Even if there was a safe and cheap solition that would not make us dependent from Russia, Germany would not find it because they decided to not even try. It is an absolute disgrace.
      - _Microft 3y ago
        The German federal government is funding Wendelstein 7-X, a large, experimental fusion reactor of the stellerator type, to a high degree (9/10 of 80% = 72% as it seems?), so this statement cannot be true in general (maybe you are thinking only of nuclear fission research?).
        pfdietz 3y ago
        Stellarators (like tokamaks) have terrible volumetric power density, so it's really doubtful they can ever be made economically competitive, even with fission as it currently exists.
    - pfdietz 3y ago
      The modern Advanced CANDU reactor in fact does use moderately enriched uranium. The cost of enrichment has fallen greatly since the original designs, so the benefit of using natural uranium has mostly dissipated, and enrichment provides some operational benefits.
  - hommelix 3y ago
    40 % is not bad. That leaves 60 % other suppliers.
ChemSpider 3y ago
Germany bets its future on solar, wind and H2. That will be interesting experiment. Who will have the lower cost/kWh in the end?
- dgellow 3y ago
  Definitely not nuclear, it’s a great source of energy but really expensive, susceptible to temperature changes, requires well trained technicians. But Germany doesn’t really have a coherent plan. The country will continue to depend on nuclear from neighboring countries.
- jansan 3y ago
  H2 is a pie in the sky. Betting your future on this is pure insanity.
  - pfdietz 3y ago
    Green H2 is projected to get cheap enough that a combined cycle plant running as a base load source on green hydrogen would be economically superior to a new construction nuclear power plant. Of course, a 100% RE grid needn't operate any hydrogen plant in base load mode, only to fill in gaps not covered by direct use of solar, wind, and batteries. Very little H2 is actually needed to cover dunkelflauten; somewhat more might be useful for seasonal leveling.
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  As it stands now it will be a disastrous experiment which will (and already has) affect(ed) the rest of north-western Europe due to the interconnected nature of the electricity network. Electricity prices in the lower half of Sweden have risen dramatically due to this and also due to the fact that our own 'progressive/green' politicos took down half the nuclear generation capacity based on ideological reasoning. This poses a number of questions: - will these ideologically driven apparatchiks ever be held accountable in some way or will they just glide through the promotion circus and end up in cushy positions as ambassador in some warm country, in some UN organisation or as head of some NGO or (like Schroeder [1]) in the board of Gazprom or some similar organisation? - if Germany continues to de-industrialise due to a shortage of affordable power it will only be harder to reach that pie in the sky called the H₂-based economy - can this downward spiral be halted in some way? - how does a country's responsibility to help stabilise the European grid interact with another country's irresponsible experimentation with that stability? While the climate-apostles have boarded their private jets for yet another posh gathering the temperature has steadily dropped, the land is white and frozen and electricity prices have risen up to tenfold. Gas prices are still low but that does not help for those who listened to the apostles and replaced their gas-burning central heating for an electric heat pump. Solar does not help either when snow covers the panels which look out over a steely-gray snow-laden sky (source: I just looked out of the window) nor does wind (source: same the before). [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gerhard-schroeder-ukraine-gazprom-vladimir-putin-olaf-scholz-b2007898.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gerhard-schr...
myspy 3y ago
Germany has no newly educated technical personal, has no place to store the used fuel, and a majority of the public doesn‘t want it due to the risks in this densely populated country. We have build a lot of solar and wind though. And more is coming after years of right leaning parties blocking wind. As far as I know it‘s cheaper to build than nuclear, isn‘t it?
- jansan 3y ago
  Oh come on. Germans have developed a completely irrational fear of nuclear energy, and everything is just a result of this. Driving cost of nuclear power plants up as much as possible was a political decision. Not finding a permanent storage was a political decision. Not having any personell was a poltical decision. What do you expect if you shut down modern and perfectly working power plants, and stop research in nuclear power? Alternative energy is more expensive, as you can see on your energy bill. I am paying 45€ per khW. How come electricity is so much cheaper in France?
- mpreda 3y ago
  According to official statistics [1], in 2022 Germany produced 33% of its electricy from coal (up from 30% coal in 2021). Of this coal, one third is brown coal. Judging from these numbers, the situation in Germany is a catastrophy from an ecological standpoint. Any german green that acted agains nuclear in Germany should feel deeply ashamed for what was achieved in the country. A green catastrophy in a country that could have been a leader! A national shame, I say. [1] https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/Graphics/Energy/2023/_Interactive/20230309-electricity-fed.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/Graphics/Energy/2023/_Inter...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

But not Germany.

by Equiet 3y ago

But not Germany.

mplewis9z 3y ago

Technically, Germany has already met their share of the requirements, well ahead of schedule.

whatisyour 3y ago
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230130-1 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/d... Germany is prety high up there.
- mplewis9z 3y ago
  (You missed the joke that they’ve already managed to triple their current nuclear capacity… i.e. 0 x 3 = 0)

butler14 3y ago

My immediate reaction too — zero surprise of course but it’s ridiculous given recent events

_Microft 3y ago
The dependency on Russian gas was bad but Russia is also controlling 40% of the worlds uranium conversion capacities. https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-nuclear-power-industry-graphics/32014247.html https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-nuclear-power-industry-graphi...
- rciorba 3y ago
  CANDU reactors use un-enriched Uranium. Technology exists, and has been in use for half a century.
  - jansan 3y ago
    But the German government has stopped ALL research in nuclear power usage. Even if there was a safe and cheap solition that would not make us dependent from Russia, Germany would not find it because they decided to not even try. It is an absolute disgrace.
    - _Microft 3y ago
      The German federal government is funding Wendelstein 7-X, a large, experimental fusion reactor of the stellerator type, to a high degree (9/10 of 80% = 72% as it seems?), so this statement cannot be true in general (maybe you are thinking only of nuclear fission research?).
      - pfdietz 3y ago
        Stellarators (like tokamaks) have terrible volumetric power density, so it's really doubtful they can ever be made economically competitive, even with fission as it currently exists.
  - pfdietz 3y ago
    The modern Advanced CANDU reactor in fact does use moderately enriched uranium. The cost of enrichment has fallen greatly since the original designs, so the benefit of using natural uranium has mostly dissipated, and enrichment provides some operational benefits.
- hommelix 3y ago
  40 % is not bad. That leaves 60 % other suppliers.

ChemSpider 3y ago

Germany bets its future on solar, wind and H2. That will be interesting experiment. Who will have the lower cost/kWh in the end?

dgellow 3y ago
Definitely not nuclear, it’s a great source of energy but really expensive, susceptible to temperature changes, requires well trained technicians. But Germany doesn’t really have a coherent plan. The country will continue to depend on nuclear from neighboring countries.
jansan 3y ago
H2 is a pie in the sky. Betting your future on this is pure insanity.
- pfdietz 3y ago
  Green H2 is projected to get cheap enough that a combined cycle plant running as a base load source on green hydrogen would be economically superior to a new construction nuclear power plant. Of course, a 100% RE grid needn't operate any hydrogen plant in base load mode, only to fill in gaps not covered by direct use of solar, wind, and batteries. Very little H2 is actually needed to cover dunkelflauten; somewhat more might be useful for seasonal leveling.
the_third_wave 3y ago
As it stands now it will be a disastrous experiment which will (and already has) affect(ed) the rest of north-western Europe due to the interconnected nature of the electricity network. Electricity prices in the lower half of Sweden have risen dramatically due to this and also due to the fact that our own 'progressive/green' politicos took down half the nuclear generation capacity based on ideological reasoning. This poses a number of questions: - will these ideologically driven apparatchiks ever be held accountable in some way or will they just glide through the promotion circus and end up in cushy positions as ambassador in some warm country, in some UN organisation or as head of some NGO or (like Schroeder [1]) in the board of Gazprom or some similar organisation? - if Germany continues to de-industrialise due to a shortage of affordable power it will only be harder to reach that pie in the sky called the H₂-based economy - can this downward spiral be halted in some way? - how does a country's responsibility to help stabilise the European grid interact with another country's irresponsible experimentation with that stability? While the climate-apostles have boarded their private jets for yet another posh gathering the temperature has steadily dropped, the land is white and frozen and electricity prices have risen up to tenfold. Gas prices are still low but that does not help for those who listened to the apostles and replaced their gas-burning central heating for an electric heat pump. Solar does not help either when snow covers the panels which look out over a steely-gray snow-laden sky (source: I just looked out of the window) nor does wind (source: same the before). [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gerhard-schroeder-ukraine-gazprom-vladimir-putin-olaf-scholz-b2007898.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gerhard-schr...

myspy 3y ago

Germany has no newly educated technical personal, has no place to store the used fuel, and a majority of the public doesn‘t want it due to the risks in this densely populated country. We have build a lot of solar and wind though. And more is coming after years of right leaning parties blocking wind. As far as I know it‘s cheaper to build than nuclear, isn‘t it?

jansan 3y ago
Oh come on. Germans have developed a completely irrational fear of nuclear energy, and everything is just a result of this. Driving cost of nuclear power plants up as much as possible was a political decision. Not finding a permanent storage was a political decision. Not having any personell was a poltical decision. What do you expect if you shut down modern and perfectly working power plants, and stop research in nuclear power? Alternative energy is more expensive, as you can see on your energy bill. I am paying 45€ per khW. How come electricity is so much cheaper in France?
mpreda 3y ago
According to official statistics [1], in 2022 Germany produced 33% of its electricy from coal (up from 30% coal in 2021). Of this coal, one third is brown coal. Judging from these numbers, the situation in Germany is a catastrophy from an ecological standpoint. Any german green that acted agains nuclear in Germany should feel deeply ashamed for what was achieved in the country. A green catastrophy in a country that could have been a leader! A national shame, I say. [1] https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/Graphics/Energy/2023/_Interactive/20230309-electricity-fed.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/Graphics/Energy/2023/_Inter...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]