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> And also, how do these compare to the inevitable health problems that long term obesity will cause Did you know that being in the BMI “overweight” category i

> And also, how do these compare to the inevitable health problems that long term obesity will cause Did you know that being in the BMI “overweight” category is healthier than any other category, including “healthy” and “underweight”? https://www.sciencealert.com/the-healthiest-weight-might-actually-be-overweight-massive-study-finds https://www.sciencealert.com/the-healthiest-weight-might-act... Now you might say well that’s interesting but i was talking about obese people taking this drug. “The study also found that those in the 'obese' category ended up having the same risk of death as those in the 'normal' range, even when factors such as age, sex, family history of disease, socio-economic status, and smoking were taken into account.” So there are plenty of justifications and reasons to take a drug like this - some good, some bad - but hand waving at the obvious dangers of being overweight or obese doesn’t hold up as well as you might think.

saurik 3y ago
> Did you know that being in the BMI “overweight” category is healthier than any other category, including “healthy” and “underweight”? I think we don't believe this anymore? I am linking to some Hacker News discussions as this is the only website I use (lol). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34930641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34930641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35121904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35121904 > Key Takeaways: > Epidemiology researchers repeatedly have found that being overweight or obese is not as much of a mortality risk as conventional wisdom would suggest. > Critics have contended that this "obesity paradox" is the result of poor methods. Using body-mass index (BMI) to measure obesity is likely the most problematic factor. > Recent research that adjusts for the flaws inherent in BMI show that there is no paradox. The more body fat a person has, the more likely it is that they will die.
- kennywinker 3y ago
  > Recent research that adjusts for the flaws inherent in BMI show that there is no paradox. The more body fat a person has, the more likely it is that they will die. The study that you link to that suggests this makes absolutely zero attempts to control for wealth. I don’t think I need to take a health study in the USA seriously if it doesn’t consider the potential for wealth (access to healthcare, leisure time, poverty stress, etc) to be the cause of what it’s seeing.
somenameforme 3y ago
You know those studies saying that a cup of wine a day is good for you? Huge numbers, compelling evidence. Turns out they were all wrong due to a pretty simple and 'obvious' bias. Plenty of people who stop drinking did so due to health conditions, both diagnosed and undiagnosed. And so when you just compared drinkers to non-drinkers, you were biasing towards healthy individuals in the drinking side, and the effect was significant enough to create a statistically significant 'discovery.' All large scale observational studies are subject so such biases, and the one you linked to also seems a likely suspect there. The hidden confounders are pretty much infinite. The users of many of the worst of sorts of drugs, such as heroine and amphetamines, tend to be average to lower weight. They will die disproportionately young, which will drag their weight cohort substantially down. Another could be increases in things like body building, which show increases in BMI without the corresponding increase in body fat that it's supposed to represent. I'm not saying any of these are the silver bullet, but rather that when you see a big observational study like this, that sort of skepticism should be the first thing to enter into your mind, as it's extremely often the case when you read about a [shocking discovery] based on big observational studies. Correlation is not causation, even with really big population sizes.
- kennywinker 3y ago
  Seems like you have a belief, and this data that challenges that is rife with flaws while the data that supports that belief is good clean science. > The users of many of the worst of sorts of drugs, such as heroine and amphetamines, tend to be average to lower weight. They will die disproportionately young, which will drag their weight cohort substantially down. Right so this study was skewed by meth use, something that there’s a good chance they controlled for at least where they could, but other studies couldn’t possibly be skewed by drugs that cause weight gain and shorten lifespan. My takeaway from this and similar studies is that body fat (especially as categorized by BMI) is mostly orthogonal to health. It’s possible to be fat + healthy, fat + unhealthy, slim + healthy, and slim and unhealthy. And if that’s the case, burdening fat people with my own assumptions about their health is misguided, and dumb.
  - somenameforme 3y ago

saurik 3y ago

> Did you know that being in the BMI “overweight” category is healthier than any other category, including “healthy” and “underweight”? I think we don't believe this anymore? I am linking to some Hacker News discussions as this is the only website I use (lol). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34930641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34930641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35121904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35121904 > Key Takeaways: > Epidemiology researchers repeatedly have found that being overweight or obese is not as much of a mortality risk as conventional wisdom would suggest. > Critics have contended that this "obesity paradox" is the result of poor methods. Using body-mass index (BMI) to measure obesity is likely the most problematic factor. > Recent research that adjusts for the flaws inherent in BMI show that there is no paradox. The more body fat a person has, the more likely it is that they will die.

kennywinker 3y ago
> Recent research that adjusts for the flaws inherent in BMI show that there is no paradox. The more body fat a person has, the more likely it is that they will die. The study that you link to that suggests this makes absolutely zero attempts to control for wealth. I don’t think I need to take a health study in the USA seriously if it doesn’t consider the potential for wealth (access to healthcare, leisure time, poverty stress, etc) to be the cause of what it’s seeing.

somenameforme 3y ago

You know those studies saying that a cup of wine a day is good for you? Huge numbers, compelling evidence. Turns out they were all wrong due to a pretty simple and 'obvious' bias. Plenty of people who stop drinking did so due to health conditions, both diagnosed and undiagnosed. And so when you just compared drinkers to non-drinkers, you were biasing towards healthy individuals in the drinking side, and the effect was significant enough to create a statistically significant 'discovery.' All large scale observational studies are subject so such biases, and the one you linked to also seems a likely suspect there. The hidden confounders are pretty much infinite. The users of many of the worst of sorts of drugs, such as heroine and amphetamines, tend to be average to lower weight. They will die disproportionately young, which will drag their weight cohort substantially down. Another could be increases in things like body building, which show increases in BMI without the corresponding increase in body fat that it's supposed to represent. I'm not saying any of these are the silver bullet, but rather that when you see a big observational study like this, that sort of skepticism should be the first thing to enter into your mind, as it's extremely often the case when you read about a [shocking discovery] based on big observational studies. Correlation is not causation, even with really big population sizes.

kennywinker 3y ago
Seems like you have a belief, and this data that challenges that is rife with flaws while the data that supports that belief is good clean science. > The users of many of the worst of sorts of drugs, such as heroine and amphetamines, tend to be average to lower weight. They will die disproportionately young, which will drag their weight cohort substantially down. Right so this study was skewed by meth use, something that there’s a good chance they controlled for at least where they could, but other studies couldn’t possibly be skewed by drugs that cause weight gain and shorten lifespan. My takeaway from this and similar studies is that body fat (especially as categorized by BMI) is mostly orthogonal to health. It’s possible to be fat + healthy, fat + unhealthy, slim + healthy, and slim and unhealthy. And if that’s the case, burdening fat people with my own assumptions about their health is misguided, and dumb.
- somenameforme 3y ago