11 ms·
Modern XMPP Server
- cloakedcode 3y agoIs this “because I can” or does XMPP fill a niche in modern text chat? This feels like a step beyond running your own email server.
- stakhanov 3y agoXMPP fills the very important "simple, and gets the job done" niche in this space. I was looking into options for a self-hosted chat service for team development about a year ago, and landed on XMPP. -- I'm happy to entertain suggestions, if I've missed anything, but I don't want any cloud service, and mattermost is bloated as hell.
- defanor 3y ago> Is this “because I can” or does XMPP fill a niche in modern text chat? Not only text chat, but also audio/video calls, file transfer. And not sure if it is exactly a "niche", but it is a standard for a federated IM, quite widely supported. Probably the only comparable alternative now is Matrix, but that comes with a bunch of downsides. > This feels like a step beyond running your own email server. Running both XMPP and mail servers, I find that an XMPP server setup is easier: there are fewer components, less spam, fewer restrictions on federation; I think you can run it fine even with a residential ISP unless there is a NAT. Not that email setup is particularly hard though.
- MattJ100 3y agoI might be biased, but I self-host both XMPP and email, and XMPP is easier. Roughly equivalent in resource usage for a small private server. Snikket (a project I started) is probably the easiest way to get a modern XMPP setup these days, or (if you're more into system packages than docker) it's pretty straightforward to get up and running with Prosody, this guide being a good indication of the few things to think about beyond "apt install prosody".
- arendtio 3y agoWell, it doesn't fill anything but was there before XYZ came. Matrix has mostly the same properties (open source, federated). Signal is not federated and WhatApps is neither federated nor open source (but has the most users). The things that make XMPP unique are very superficial. For a long time, it was the dominant IETF Standard for instant messaging and it has proven that it can adapt to new circumstances (mobile clients), but who cares about such stuff nowadays ;-) Compared to running your own email server, you just have to solve different problems: - XMPP has higher uptime requirements (from a user perspective) - spam is not such a big problem for small installations
- mananaysiempre 3y agoCompared to Matrix, - Much lighter in processing and storage requirements (at the cost of group conversation history being a crapshoot) - Not de facto controlled by New Vector, which I’m gradually losing faith in[1][2] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38162275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38162275 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38451920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38451920
- k_bx 3y agoHosted secure chat is still a very important niche. Matrix.org is failing so far once you add many users. XMPP fails too, usually, but for different reasons (configuration issues hard to debug, apparrently).
- adontz 3y agoNow we need a decent client :-( Ideally, something with UX level of Telegram.
- RadiozRadioz 3y agohttps://conversations.im/ https://conversations.im/
- forward1 3y agoAvoid this shady app. Some years ago the developer removed OTR support without warning then casually claimed the app "never did any verification" without additional clarification. This is a dangeous attitude for someone responsible for developing privacy-minded software.
- rodlette 3y agoOMEMO has replaced OTR. Conversations.im supports OMEMO. Conversations.im and its developer produce great things for the community: * Conversations.im itself * https://snikket.org/open-source/ https://snikket.org/open-source/ and https://quicksy.im/ https://quicksy.im/ are built on the conversations app * Hosted XMPP: https://account.conversations.im/ https://account.conversations.im/ * Compliance testing: https://compliance.conversations.im/ https://compliance.conversations.im/
- forward1 3y agoNone of that addresses the concern about the developer's attitude and shady statement about OTR straight up not working in his software. Maybe he's done other good things for the community, but having unreliable crypto is a deal-breaker for me.
- pabs3 3y agoOTR is now dangerously insecure: https://dustri.org/b/time-to-sunset-otr.html https://dustri.org/b/time-to-sunset-otr.html
- 3y ago
- oofbey 3y agoAny decade now people are going to realize how awesome XMPP is and start using it for everything!
- pkphilip 3y agoTrue :)
- fy20 3y agoI've heard 2024 will be the year of the Linux desktop and XMPP...
- geraldhh 3y agomost consumer devices and services nowadays build upon foss tech, some even could be used in a foss way, but walled gardens are so much more profitable.
- troupo 3y ago> Any decade now people are going to realize how awesome XMPP In all honesty, it's not that awesome. It took XMPP over a decade to get features expected from modern protocols such as not requiring persistent connections, client notifications, conversation syncing between clients, file uploads, E2EE...
- zaik 3y agoIf you account for resources which have been put into development of those features, it's pretty obvious XMPP is the more agile protocol. Five independent open source developers take longer to develop some feature in their spare time than a corporation with tens of millions of venture capital funding, and sometimes they're even faster? Imagine what could be if people focused on XMPP instead of constantly re-inventing the wheel.
- troupo 3y ago> If you account for resources which have been put into development of those features, it's pretty obvious XMPP is the more agile protocol. 10 years is not agile. > Imagine what could be if people focused on XMPP instead of constantly re-inventing the wheel. We could try and imagine. As it stands, it's XMPP which is reinventing the wheel, continuously. The primary reason being: it was developed at a time when non-persistent internet connection, multi-device synchronisation, video calls, ubiquitous file sharing and other wonders of the modern world didn't exist, and retrofitting it was a multi-year struggle. Undoubtedly prolonged by the very same people who decried the modern world and claimed that XMPP was enough: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38497839 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38497839
- defanor 3y agoLooks good. A couple more things I find useful to set with Prosody are: - The firewall module to blacklist spammers; that can be done with a system-wide firewall as well, but it is nicer for diagnostics to serve proper errors, not just to drop packets or refuse connections. - The bosh and websocket modules, to use with converse.js. A web UI is convenient to have for logging in from systems without XMPP clients.
- nicoco 3y agoI never needed to set up firewall to fight spam, but maybe I was just lucky. I think https://xmppbl.org/ https://xmppbl.org/ via https://modules.prosody.im/mod_muc_rtbl https://modules.prosody.im/mod_muc_rtbl is the way to go to fight spam if you plan on hosting public groups.
- nicoco 3y agoShameless plug: once prosody is up and running, add some gateway components to use your xmpp clients to chat with those still jailed in walled gardens such as WhatsApp, telegram, signal, discord (and a few other more): https://slidge.im https://slidge.im
- yeeeeeee 3y agoI've been running slidge to bridge WhatsApp for a while now and it works great.
- renegat0x0 3y agoWhy the main domain https://www.trueelena.org/ https://www.trueelena.org/ looks that ugly?
- radiator 3y agoBecause it is no longer updated, it says so on the top.
- renegat0x0 3y agoWell yeah, but it is the main domain. It is like a front door isn't? Shouldnt it be kept updated?
- Y_Y 3y agoI can't wait until my front door needs regular updates to keep working
- renegat0x0 3y agoIs that comment supposed to be useful? You need to make updates to your front door. You need to make updates, repairs, clean it. So yes, front doors require updates.
- doublerabbit 3y agoIs your comment suppose to be useful?
- Y_Y 3y agoListen here you little shit. There are doors that have been in continuous use for over a thousand years (like St. Botolph's Daneskin door). Comments don't have to be useful to be good, but updates do.
- kamma4434 3y agoA honest-to-God personal website. So refreshing.
- rcbdev 3y agoXMPP could have been something truly great. The ejabberd project alone has been used to build WhatsApp, Nintendo's Push Notification System, Epic Games' Chat, etc. - so it does have a genuine track record of being scalable and providing value to this day. I suspect the thing that held back its adoption for end-users (or is still holding it back) is the fragmented ecosystem and so-so open source clients with questionable inter-compatibility, i.e. you can get calls from Windows to Android to work as an end-user, but it's a rocky path. Hopefully we can one day see the great XMPP renaissance.
- poisonborz 3y agoLike with so many mainstream usecase projects, I'd wager to say the protocol/backend is the easy part. It all depends on good easy to use clients.
- geraldhh 3y agothou afaik the spec does not include any provisions for direct messages (as technically it's only a group with two members), leaving the mess up to the clients.
- nicoco 3y agoThat's true for Matrix, not XMPP.
- dasyatidprime 3y agoWhere are you getting this? My memory is the exact opposite: XMPP targeted one-to-one messages first and then MUC was a sort of weird bolt-on.
- geraldhh 3y agoapologies, my memory must have gotten mixed up. point stands, as both deliver a subpar experience with either dm's or groups
- 3y ago