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300-year-old Tokyo comb company sells 30k-yen ($200) wooden hair combs
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- init2null 3y agoI've spent $20 on British-made hand polished plastic combs, but that's my limit. Worth it for comb snobs like me. I suppose everyone has different standards for luxury.
- reallymental 3y agoI find it endearing, fascinating but ultimately tedious that the Japanese put SO much effort into both seemingly mundane AND intricate objects. I realize that it's more a combination of tradition and their self imposed ~exile~ (isolationism, corrected) from the world for a long time. But there must be a reason why they excel, I mean really excel at anything they put their minds to. Their population also tolerates this! These businesses stay in business! Just to name a few things they're still unbeatable at: 1. Pens (This is a rabbit hole, buyer beware) 2. Paper (Midori! oh Midori) 3. Architecture (a function of their location, but none-the-less) 4. Art (manga, cartoons, all invaluable part of the pop culture even today) 5. I don't partake as much, but their food is unbelievable. There's just something about their tenacity that we can take a morsel of. edit: Corrected from exile, to isolationism. Also, I did forget about photography! (Nikon!) and chalk! All credits to people(ai?) in the comments below for these edits.
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y agoYes because they understand the point of life. It is the creating and the making that makes things worth living. That is why chat gpt and similar tech is going to make our lives more meaningless. Writing and struggling and completing the poem is itself more than half of what makes a poem worthy. The final artifact which chatgpt provides is meaningless without that effort.
- ratg13 3y agoAll countries have things they excel at and things they could be better in. Japan’s work culture, staying late for no reason, sleeping at the office as a sign of dedication.. these things still argue against “understanding the point of life”
- zamadatix 3y agoThe output you create with tools doesn't have to be any less rewarding that the output you create without them. A good game isn't inherently meaningless to your life because you used existing tools far beyond your capacity to construct alone (a computer, a compiler, a game engine) and a bad game isn't inherently meaningful to you just because you made it out of a tree with your bare hands. How you wield the tools (innate or external) is much more relevant to creating something meaningful to you and should extend well past when we have tools "bettet" at doing something than we are ourselves.
- chefandy 3y agoNot a popular opinion around here, but generative AI has little overlap with the processes common to creating all sorts of art, but lots in common with commissioning creative work. When you commission art, you have a discussion with the artist— however long it needs to be to get your point across. That can be quite lengthy and involve many sketches, mood boards, etc for important pieces, or a couple of sentences for others— and there are usually iterations where things get modified based on your input. When I do visual design work, I build those two things into every contract I put together. Using generative AI uses almost exactly the same process as commissioning art — you're just commissioning it from a computer that will give you an amalgam of other people's art much more quickly than humans can produce it. That's fundamentally philosophically different than using a tool that will make it easier to put elements that you made into a piece exactly as you want them. Someone compositing with photoshop or doing layout with indesign or whatnot can't call themselves a paste-up person or a dark room photo editor, but they are still deliberately placing elements they made to look exactly like they want, from their own minds, into a piece that they create. They are creating art. I've seen few people using generative AI in my particular disciplines that even vaguely understand how many decisions that algorithm is making for them in that process. They just don't understand it enough to know what they don't know. That's the point, right? Nothing wrong with that, but it's distinct from creating art. It's not even bumper bowling— it's directing an amalgam of all bowlers and taking credit when it gets a strike. If you commissioned work from an artist, you wouldn't simply cross out that artist's name and add your own, would you? Art directors and editors who exercise precise control over their artist's output don't remove the artists name and add their own, do they? If there was an AI system that could competently perform surgery, no matter how much massaging that prompt needed, I wouldn't call myself a surgeon for using it, and it would a fundamentally philosophically different activity than a surgeon performing laproscopic survey, evergreen though they're assisted by a modern tool.
- sickofparadox 3y agoManga's complete and total dominance over western comics has certainly been something to see, it's not even a competition anymore! A single issue of 'lower selling' manga can dwarf the entire run of a 'popular comic'. All this happening during what may be the peak superhero popularity (not today but past ~decade).
- chrisco255 3y agoThat is interesting, but all sorts of printed media have seen a decline in the U.S. at least. A lot of magazines have gone under or are going entirely digital. While books seem to be doing okay in printed form, I'm certain they've seen a decline too. Western comics were usually sold at newsstands and magazine racks. Newspapers are almost completely gone and magazine racks have been downsized everywhere from when I was a kid.
- skydhash 3y agoI think it’s mostly because mangas (and related creative work) narrates a more complex story than the hero/vilain showdown. The best comics I’ve read were East of West, The Sixth Gun, Descender,… I struggled to find one Pixar/Disney animated movie that is not a moral and preachy story.
- nazka 3y agoDefinitely their skills at storytelling. Look at what is considered the top 5 comics of Batman for instance. Their stories are meh at best to forgettable and so far from what mangas offer. I think they work because the art is very good. I can’t wait to have someone who draws comics to coop with someone who does storytelling in mangas.
- ghaff 3y agoTo me, Japan is just this weird combination of utter refinement (which, yes, leads to prices for some things that seem beyond remotely rational) and complete kitsch. I like traveling to Japan now and then then but it seems a bit both alien and difficult in a way most countries aren't.
- lovemenot 3y agoI feel it's essentially similar to stories such as the Imperial Japanese soldier still fighting WWII into the 1970s on a remote Philippine island. Once started down a path, never stop, never change course. 我慢して!
- bluepizza 3y agoIsolation lasted only 260 years, and ended more than 150 years ago. Explaining luxury combs because of sakoku is a bit absurd. It's akin to explaining luxury handbags due to the vikings invasions.
- Terr_ 3y agoThe handbag comparison came to mind for me too: We don't usually look for a big ethnic/culture explanations for European designer handbag manufacturers. Though perhaps watchmaking is an exception.
- reallymental 3y agoI think you're underestimating the effect of "only 260" years of isolationism. They must have learnt to be self sufficient in many ways, not only in commerce.
- jonahhorowitz 3y agoI've always felt that Japan takes things the rest of the world is known for and does it better. Some examples to add on to yours above. - Better denim than America - Better coffee than Italy/France/etc - Better French pastries than France
- marak830 3y agoStrong disagree with he coffee. I've lived here for 10 years, and coffee here is quite generic.
- guessmyname 3y agoI agree, in spirit, but there are many bad coffee shops and restaurants through out Japan too. They are, obviously, not depicted in the media. The things that I can praise are mostly things that don’t usually exist outside of Japan, either because foreigners don’t like them or because it’s difficult to make them, some examples include: - “smart” toilets -- https://jp.toto.com/products/toilet/ https://jp.toto.com/products/toilet/ - (fresh) もち -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mochi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mochi - 卵かけご飯 -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamago_kake_gohan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamago_kake_gohan - あんこ -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_bean_paste https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_bean_paste - variety of 漬物 -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsukemono https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsukemono - (cheap! fresh and delicious) sushi (the one we find in American restaurants is… well, Americanized, e.g. cucumber, avocado, bunch of sauce, etc.; you may as well buy californian rolls and call it a day). Good sushi in American restaurants is expensive, that’s why I put emphasis in the word “cheap”. - 神戸ビーフ -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_beef https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_beef which you can easily buy in America too, but somehow the quality is not the same, I am not sure why, maybe the pastures or the way they treat the cows. I have no idea. - kitchen knives -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_kitchen_knife https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_kitchen_knife , for example, e.g. Santoku (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santoku https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santoku), Yanagi-ba (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanagi_ba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanagi_ba), Nakiri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakiri_bōchō https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakiri_bōchō), Deba (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deba_bōchō https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deba_bōchō), among others. That said, Japan also produces a lot of silly stuff: - U$200 (square-shaped) watermelons -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_watermelon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_watermelon - U$50 (Egg of the Sun) mangos -- https://www.m-tokusan.or.jp/en/main-products/mango/ https://www.m-tokusan.or.jp/en/main-products/mango/ - U$200 (Yubari King) melons -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yubari_King https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yubari_King - 95 ft² apartments -- https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2022/10/09/general/japan-microapartments-youth/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2022/10/09/general/japan-m... —and— https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/03/business/tiny-apartments-tokyo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/03/business/tiny-apartments-...
- dontupvoteme 3y agoIsolationism isn't Exile. [also you're missing Photography gear :) ]
- resonious 3y agoI remember watching a thing about a Japanese geologist. It had to do with figuring out what kind of rock is in the earth's mantle. The way they do this is apparently by just squishing regular rocks (very tiny ones) with machines to simulate the mantle's pressure. Apparently this changes the color and other properties of the rock, effectively making a new rock. They said these machines are hard to manufacture after a certain point because if the precision is off by even less than a mm, it'd destroy itself while applying pressure. The geologist hired a Japanese craftsman to hand-assemble a new machine, and it worked well enough to break the record and basically discover a new rock we hadn't seen before. Wish I remembered the names! Anyway, I thought that's a cool example of the intense craftsman culture "paying off" beyond just receiving admiration for impressive combs.
- nvy 3y ago>I realize that it's more a combination of tradition and their self imposed exile from the world for a long time. Surely it's more to do with population density? It's not like every Japanese person has one of these combs. It's much more likely that these niche businesses can exist where population is highly concentrated.
- chrisco255 3y agoMaybe? Even where population isn't highly concentrated, niche businesses can exist via mail order or ecommerce (to gain access to global audience).
- zomglings 3y agoAnd chalk. There is a brand of Japanese chalk which is very popular among people who frequently use chalk. It is called Hagoromo. See: - Why mathematicians are hoarding this special type of Japanese chalk: https://gizmodo.com/why-mathematicians-are-hoarding-this-special-type-of-ja-1711008881 https://gizmodo.com/why-mathematicians-are-hoarding-this-spe... - Apparently that company was purchased from its previous owner and continues to operate: https://hagoromo.shop/ https://hagoromo.shop/
- rpearl 3y agoPens (pencils too!) and paper make sense because of the fine detail/relatively high stroke count required to write even some common kanji legibly
- gosub100 3y agoNobody has mentioned swords yet? That's the neet starter-pack first item.
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- gerdesj 3y agoJapan is also often cited, along with Argentina as having a rather odd economomy (1) I personally rather enjoy origami. I've been doing it for around 45 years (on and off) and am a bit crap. It is quite fun throwing a frog or crane at someone to show how exciting a meeting is 8) If you need to be really unsubtle - a "water bomb" (cube) does the job. I love the really complicated stuff but I have to follow instructions - box pleating can get hairy, very quickly. 1-5 - perhaps. Do recall that other exemplars exist. Wherever you are from, your country or culture will almost certainly be expert, the best or whatever at something. The important thing is to notice these things and to embrace them. There used to be a notion, hereabouts, of the "Renaissance Man" - someone erudite in all pursuits of endeavour. Obviously we would like to broaden the scope to "Person" nowadays but the notion still seems a good one to aspire towards. Just looking at your 4 - Art ... you would be unlikely to see something like "Footrot Flats" as a Japanese cartoon. Cards on the table - I'm a Brit and Footrot Flats is a long running series of cartoons by a bloke called Murray Ball from NZ (2) I personally find the shenanigans of Wal, Cooch and co the best cartoons I've ever read and I am a massive fan of Asterix (mostly French) too. Oh and Tintin (Belgium). Look outwards as well as inwards, otherwise you may end up with an economy that is held up as being a counter example to the rest of the world. On the other hand: does it really matter. Economics is barely a science, let alone a craft. Perhaps we need some better measures, when doing crass comparisons. Vive la différance. (1) https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/03/28/how-argentina-and-japan-continue-to-confound-macroeconomists https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/03/28/h... (2) https://footrotflats.com/ https://footrotflats.com/
- xanderlewis 3y agoWhy tedious?
- KennyBlanken 3y agoA level of trade protectionism second only to North Korea has done a handy job of protecting all these various cottage industries...and I really don't see the difference between this and any of the other bespoke high-end goods made throughout western history? Tenacity? Their tenacity for genocide, torture, and chemical/biological warfare is probably something we could do without. This is still topical because for decades the powers that be in Japan have been openly pushing "we did nothing wrong / were the victims in WW2" historical revisionism that would make a Texas Board of Education member blush, and they've been increasingly running roughshod over the restrictions on military buildup. Then there's the horrific criminal justice system. Oh, and there's also the rampant xenophobia and racism. You spoke of high praise for their manga; google "terraformars." A manga that started in 2011, gained an anime adaptation, and is still wildly popular. White/asian space settlers land on mars and battle native "bugs" that look exactly like extreme caricatures of black people, right down to their hair and hairstyling.
- jbarham 3y agoRe: architecture in Japan the typical lifespan of a house is less than 30 years: https://robbreport.com/shelter/home-design/japanese-homes-are-ephemeral-facing-demolition-just-22-years-in-heres-why-1234608438/ https://robbreport.com/shelter/home-design/japanese-homes-ar... I'd recommend the book Jutaku by Naomi Pollock to get a sense of how uniquely innovative Japanese housing architecture is. Ironically a major reason is tax depreciation rules for houses which encourage homeowners to demolish and rebuild rather than renovate.
- VoodooJuJu 3y agoThey absolutely do some nice crafts, but so does everyone else. Aside from personal tastes, the primary reason Japan holds a special place in certain people's hearts is because of a fairly mature and extremely successful ongoing marketing campaign, Cool Japan [1]. This meme quite aptly illustrates the phenomenon: https://old.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/mw20up/this_site_is_very_guilty_of_this/ https://old.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/mw20up/this_site_is_... They have nice pens? So does Pelikan and Visconti They have nice paper? So does Smythson and G. Lalo They have nice architecture? Beautiful, unique, inspiring? So does every other country (except of course for modern architecture) They have nice pop art? There's some really nice anime out there, just like our comics, though anime is generally more soulful than the capeshit stuff, for sure Food? As tasty and unique as any other country's I'd say, though you'll leave the restaurant with an empty stomach I think Japan has done a better job than most countries at preserving the economic viability of arts and crafts, deliberately via protectionism and accidentally via cultural elements. I wish my own culture valued cultural tradition and quality over absolute economic efficiency, as they once did. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_Japan
- vharuck 3y ago>I think Japan has done a better job than most countries at preserving the economic viability of arts and crafts, deliberately via protectionism and accidentally via cultural elements. This is probably the secret sauce. I'm only a neophyte Japanophile, but respect for masters of crafts seems a big part of their culture[0]. But experts can't make a living off vague cultural values. So the Japanese government, in their fervent desire to preserve their ethnic and national identity, pours a lot of money and attention on craftsmen associated with their cultural heritage[1]. And now the cultural values are important, because Japanese voters have a more positive view of this spending than citizens of other countries might. [0]Yes, all cultures respect experts. But what matters is how much respect relative to other figures. For example, in the United States, business leaders enjoy more respect than master craftsmen. [1]https://web.archive.org/web/20110813130933/http://www.bunka.go.jp/bunkazai/pamphlet/pdf/pamphlet_en_03_ver03.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20110813130933/http://www.bunka....
- hilux 3y agoI love the food in Japan. I recently asked a Japanese-American person, who has lived in Japan, how the quality of the food (and everything else) is so high in Japan, so much higher than in the US. He said that the Japanese have high expectations for quality, but more than that, every person is supposed to contribute to the overall high quality of everything. This is enforced through deep social pressure that governs your entire life. Needless to say, this is quite unlike the US.
- dang_nsfw 3y ago[flagged]
- mbivert 3y agoThere's something pleasant to hand-made tools, dishes, etc. Taking the time to enjoy using, observing something as mundane as a mug or a comb on a regular basis, instead of rushing mindlessly through the day, surrounded by cheap, mass-produced, disposable items. They're an even greater source of joy when you have some knowledge on them; the same goes for architecture, flora, etc.
- Syzygies 3y agoI paid more than that for a used abacus, best handmade quality for business use, dating to the 1960's. But I'm a mathematician with a brush cut.
- umvi 3y ago> If you take care of a Yonoya comb, it’ll last you for decades, the company says I don't take care of my $3 Ace plastic comb, and it's over 20 years old. You're telling me for this Japanese one I need to pay $200 and I need to start taking care of it??
- oska 3y agoYou can also buy metal combs for ~$10 that will last centuries, with virtually zero chance of breaking any of the teeth off
- snapplebobapple 3y agoThose are prone to warping but are otherwise quite nice. You can often unbend them enough, eat least this has been my experience.
- oska 3y agoInteresting to hear about other ppl's experience with warping. I have some metal combs that I bought 20+ years ago that haven't warped at all (i.e. I have them on the table in front of me right now and they are lying perfectly flat).
- whalesalad 3y agoThe best part about becoming bald is that I can shave my head in like 5 minutes for free. It’s wild to me that people will spend so much money on hair care but I guess I might do the same if I had any lol
- alexjplant 3y agoUntil about a decade ago I had long, curly hair that required a _lot_ of product to keep looking halfway decent. Great aesthetically and as a conversation piece (sometimes - North American culture has an unfortunate bit of bias against natural hair), bad for convenience. I'm glad that I got to have it but I don't miss it one bit.
- hilux 3y agoBaldness has its advantages. Those head-scalp massagers are great!
- madrox 3y agoIt’s worth admiring businesses like this, though they may not be for the HN crowd that only thinks about companies that can scale to a billion dollars. If the AI dream becomes real, lots of the businesses around today are going to the next generation’s $200 comb. For every industry mass production kills, there is at least one company that survives by making an artisan alternative.
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- xanderlewis 3y agoIt’s interesting you point that out, because businesses that are clearly incredibly successful and have hordes of loyal customers and yet seemingly have zero interest in expansion is something I strongly associate with Japan. Think of the humble noodle shop with three seats and a constant queue of thirty people down the street. Intensely business-minded (almost imperialistic) people find it very hard to understand people who just don’t think that way. For some, doing one’s best and getting by is enough. But it seems naive and backward to others.
- ctippett 3y agoI wish I knew of this earlier. My wife and I are celebrating our 5th wedding anniversary at the end of the month and our theme this year calls for something made of wood. Unfortunately the timing and logistical challenge of sourcing something like this from Japan rules it out as a potential gift idea.
- j7ake 3y agoJapanese culture has a particular attraction to westerners. But it’s an illusion from marketing than reality. It may be true that many aspects of Japanese culture are better than the American stuff, but doesn’t mean Japan has any global advantage in their fancy niche products over other countries like China, Korea, Sweden, or Switzerland. Just as an example, the pantheon comb by a Slovakian company eclipses this “fancy” 200 dollar Japanese one.
- hilux 3y agoThe average quality of stuff is very high in Japan. That's reality, not marketing illusion. Where the average is high, it's easy to believe that the peaks are also high - higher than in (say) China.