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Cocoa harvested by kids as young as 5 in Ghana: CBS News investigation
- java-man 3y agoCharge the CEOs of companies that buy cocoa with child abuse.
- maxwell 3y agoThey were charged, but the Supreme Court ruled in their favor. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/supreme-court-rules-in-favor-of-nestle-in-child-slavery-case.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/supreme-court-rules-in-favor...
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> were charged They were sued. That's reasonable. (SCOTUS overturned it. I don't know the relevant law well enough to comment on it.) Criminally charging executives would be tantamount to putting Ghana's cocoa sector under U.S. sanctions.
- maxwell 3y agoYep thanks for clarifying/correcting.
- tdb7893 3y agoIt'll be a cold day in hell before a CEO gets charged for any crimes that they oversee (at least without seriously defrauding another corporation or rich person). Not a single Sackler is in jail for causing the opioid crisis.
- bell-cot 3y ago> Munira, 15, is one of those children. [...] Last year, her family harvested only one bag of decent-quality cocoa. A 140-pound bag of the product fetches only about $115. Sounds like "child labor" is downstream of the actual problem.
- janice1999 3y agoCall me a bleeding heart but child labor is an 'actual' problem. You can keep destructing societal issues until you reinvent the universe from scratch. It may be difficult to solve global poverty but it's not a lot to ask extremely profitable companies to enforce the supply chain checks they've committed to.
- josu 3y agoChild labor tends to go away with the increase in GDP.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoChildren go away when women are empowered. To starve the world of child labor, empower women. https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#empowerment-of-women https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#empowerment-of-wom...
- MyShawdowySelf 3y agoSo your solution to not treating children baddly is to not have children? Seems a bit strange instead of just ... you know pay people a descent wage so they don't have to put they children in arms way
- toomuchtodo 3y agoAs my uncouth grandfather used to say: “Wishes in one hand, shit in the other, which will fill first?” These children work because they have no choice. They are paid these wages because they can’t make more. I suggest empowering women who don’t want children to not have them. If we look at the developed world, it is clear the total fertility rate will settle far below replacement rate (2.1) and child labor will dry up when women are educated and have robust access to family planning. Perpetual labor shortages are a better outcome than surplus labor and lives of suffering, most especially children suffering. By all means, open your wallet to pay these kids a living wage. I’ll even help you bootstrap the direct cash transfer mechanisms via mobile payments if you have deep pockets. But that is unlikely to happen. Hope is not a strategy. https://www.unicef.org/protection/child-labour https://www.unicef.org/protection/child-labour ("Nearly 1 in 10 children are subjected to child labour worldwide, with some forced into hazardous work through trafficking.") https://ourworldindata.org/child-labor https://ourworldindata.org/child-labor ("The International Labour Organisation states in its latest World Report on Child Labour (2013) that there are around 265 million working children in the world—almost 17 per cent of the worldwide child population. According to the publicly available data discussed in more detail below, Sub-Saharan Africa is the region where child labour is most prevalent.") https://www.vox.com/23971366/declining-birth-rate-fertility-babies-children https://www.vox.com/23971366/declining-birth-rate-fertility-... ("You can’t even pay people to have more kids") https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6198592/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6198592/ ("Challenges and perspectives of child labor")
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago> Munira, 15, is one of those children. She has worked in the cocoa fields since she was 5 years old. Education is a luxury, with her school an hour-long walk away and transportation options expensive. Last year, her family harvested only one bag of decent-quality cocoa. A 140-pound bag of the product fetches only about $115. I think child labor is actually a symptom of a deeper problem and cracking down on child labor without providing better financial support for the families will actually lead to worse problems. Reading this, it doesn’t sound like if the child wasn’t working harvesting cocoa, she would be in school studying. Likely, either her family would starve or she would be be doing more dangerous work (perhaps even prostitution).
- benj111 3y ago150 years ago child labour in the West was common. If you can barely afford food then everyone needs to work to earn money. I'm kind of in two minds, from their point of view there's probably nothing wrong, but that's incompatible with our morals. But then we obviously aren't willing to pay for those morals.
- User23 3y agoChild labor is still not uncommon in agricultural communities in the USA. I believe the federal law is age 12 and up for farm work. And de facto if not de jure there is no age limit on children working their own family’s farm. Granted one might call that chores rather than labor. And the minimum age to babysit is as low as 8 based on a quick search.
- benj111 3y agoYes. I was thinking more, chimney sweeping and factory work. My point was we were poor then and had different standards. They probably have those same standards as we had for the same reasons. We have different standards now, so it's on us to do something if we want to.
- tdb7893 3y agoIt depends what you mean by child labor. My experience is that the children help on the farm but for the most part do school full time until at least their latter teenage years. It's pretty different than the child labor in the article.
- tomcam 3y agoAt this point the only things I can eat ethically are sawdust and cockroaches
- AussieWog93 3y agoIs that FSC certified sawdust, or are you destroying an old-growth rainforest?
- Avshalom 3y ago>cockroaches They're just one enterprising rebrand away from being Urban Wall Shrimp.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y agoJohn Oliver did a segment on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwHMDjc7qJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwHMDjc7qJ8 He went into the whole child labor thing.
- gyrate 3y ago[dead]
- wusher 3y agoIf you think that's bad, wait until you find out who's mining the metals for the solar panels. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/03/child-labour-toxic-leaks-the-price-we-could-pay-for-a-greener-future https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/03/child-la...
- throwaway5752 3y agoThey are talking about cobalt from coltan - cobalt-tanatalum - ore, 70% of which is used in vehicle and device batteries. Not solar panels. Your article you linked contained the word "solar" and none of them were related to child mining of coltan for solar panels. They did allude to energy storage in batteries for wind and solar sources, and if you look there are a number of research projects to reduce cobalt consumption in grid scale storage and other battery cathode applications. Your summary of the article is misleading and incorrect.
- zozbot234 3y agoSo it turns out that the enslaved Oompa-Loompas in Willy Wonka's chocolate factory were just truth in advertising. There's quite a bit of irony to that particular controversy.
- teachrdan 3y agoFor those who don't get OP's reference, in the original version of the book, Oompa-Loompas were literal slaves form Africa. The publisher made Roald Dahl change them to mythical creatures.
- zizee 3y ago> Oompa-Loompas were literal slaves form Africa I can find a lot of stuff written online about this, but none of it quotes the original text. The original oompa-loompas were pygmies from Africa, written in a pretty racist way, and with wonka being a type of white-messiah-savior for them. I can definitely see an argument that wonka was a shitty employer, violating all sorts of legal and moral rules. But we're they actual slaves? From what I have been able to find they were paid, but chose to take payments in cocoa. Were they forced to work and imprisoned? I guess I would like to see the original text, as all the articles written on the subject make proclamations of them being actual slaves, but don't show anything from the original text (or make the argument) to demonstrate they were actually slaves. One such article: https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/170755 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/170755
- teachrdan 3y agoWe might both be right. It appears the original version was a fantasy where the Oompa-Loompa's were happy to be taken from their homeland to an underground factory to work for free. This is from "Jeremy Treglown’s Roald Dahl: A Biography" "In the version first published, [the Oompa-Loompas were] a tribe of 3,000 amiable black pygmies who have been imported by Mr. Willy Wonka from ‘the very deepest and darkest part of the African jungle where no white man had been before.’ Mr. Wonka keeps them in the factory, where they have replaced the sacked white workers. Wonka’s little slaves are delighted with their new circumstances, and particularly with their diet of chocolate. Before they lived on green caterpillars, beetles, eucalyptus leaves, ‘and the bark of the bong-bong tree.'" Is this technically slavery? Maybe not, by the fairy tale logic of the book. But this is a troublesome, to say the least, trope of oppressed people who are perversely grateful to be exploited by (invariably) white men. To each their own bong-bong tree. https://groovyhistory.com/oompa-loompas-the-original-ones/4 https://groovyhistory.com/oompa-loompas-the-original-ones/4
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y agoI mean this is nothing new? If you bought an iPhone you were part of exploiting child labor. Will you stop buying an iPhone? Of course not. We should ideally stop showing such fake interest in these things and focus on other things. https://www.thefp.com/p/your-iphone-was-built-with-child https://www.thefp.com/p/your-iphone-was-built-with-child
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> should ideally stop showing such fake interest in these things Perfect is the enemy of good [1]. We don't have to completely solve a problem to make discussing it worthwhile. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y agoSure we can keep discussing it and feeling good about ourselves.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> we can keep discussing it and feeling good about ourselves Contemplating the exploitation of children makes you feel good about yourself? To the extent anyone is virtue signalling, it's the comment arguing we should throw this under the rug because everyone isn't sufficiently morally invested.
- randomdata 3y agoThere isn't nearly enough information in the article to know if there is exploitation taking place or not. A child doing some chores is not considered exploitation by any reasonable measure. According to the internet, a typical person can harvest 150-175 pounds of cocoa per day[1]. The family in question harvested 140 pounds that year. It is not like this is some kind of full time job. It is barely a hobby. With the whole family pitching in, it struggles to even make for an afternoon outing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_bean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_bean
- bouncycastle 3y agoAll I see these days is kids watching mindless youtube/tik-tok videos all day. Perhaps sending them to a farm for some movement might actually be good for them & give them a sense of accomplishment. Seize their phones before they go.
- 31337Logic 3y agoYounger me would have laughed (or even wanted to insult you) over this comment. Older me just gave you an upvote for it. I think you're on to something.
- bouncycastle 3y agoThanks! Looks like I got downvoted to hell anyways, now at -2. But that's OK, I've got points to burn on challenging views ;-)
- randomdata 3y agoGotta spend fake internet points to make fake internet points.
- beebeepka 3y ago[flagged]
- bouncycastle 3y agoExplain? Devices are everyone these days and child obesity rates are climbing higher.
- beebeepka 3y agoChild obesity? Maybe where you live
- randomdata 3y ago> Do you work with kids? The comment implies that the kids don't work. They may not even be legally able to if he lives in the region of the world where the typical HN user does. If the kids don't work, it is impossible for him to work with them.
- yawboakye 3y agoghanaian here: it’s not the business of mars (m&m makers) to ensure that no children are exploited during the production of the cocoa beans. and americans shouldn’t eat their chocolate with some trepidation that they might be eating the body and blood of a 5-yo. we, not they, commit these boys and girls to these activities, of our own volition. it’s a fucked up society that looks to hold an external party responsible for ills within itself. if child labor is bad, we don’t need mars and the rest of the world to tell us so. we should be civilized enough to get ourselves out of the ongoing era of barbarism and brutishness that has plagued the continent. fuck!
- autoexec 3y ago> it’s a fucked up society that looks to hold an external party responsible for ills within itself. I agree with you there, however Mars knowingly exploits children so that they can stuff their own pockets with cash. That too is sick and the US should hold them accountable for that for our own sake. We've spent a long time profiting from slavery in this country and more recently we've patted ourselves on the back for ending slavery while in reality we simply outsourced it and moved the slave plantations out of sight. We should absolutely think about what it is we're supporting while we buy or eat chocolate.
- MyShawdowySelf 3y agoWest African here too. This is too simplistic, and a problem can have multiple guilty parties. There is enough blame to go around. > we, not they, commit these boys and girls to these activities, of our own volition. We can judge people's choices without taking in consideration the context and the options that they have. The alternative to not sending those young people to work is them starving, or not going to school. > if child labor is bad, we don’t need mars and the rest of the world to tell us so. we should be civilized enough to get ourselves out of the ongoing era of barbarism and brutishness that has plagued the continent. fuck! Child labor is the best solution within a see of worst solutions to a complex problem. Having talked and knowing people in similar conditions, every parent naturally wants they kids to have an easy and better life. That's not being civilized it's just being human. Saddly those parent can not afford the luxury of giving that to their parent. > it’s a fucked up society that looks to hold an external party responsible for ills within itself. The economical situation in African countries is complex and multivariate. And yes the governments are usually corrupt and ineffective. But the failed policies of international bodies such as the IMF or world banks, the complicity of european banks in money laundering. The meddling of international companies that are happy to support which ever dictatorship du-jour suit their needs best are definitely not helping. > it’s not the business of mars (m&m makers) to ensure that no children are exploited during the production of the cocoa beans They made it their business by participating in it. > americans shouldn’t eat their chocolate with some trepidation that they might be eating the body and blood of a 5-yo. No... It's a personal choice. If some people can become vegan out of compassion of animals, we should be able to avoid chocolate out of compassion our fellow human beings even if they happen to not be from the same country.
- abeppu 3y agoThis article is about Mars. But in 2021, Nestle and Cargill were involved in a Supreme Court case, where it was decided that the Alien Torts act could not used to bring suit by plaintiff who allege they were child slaves, trafficked from Mali to the Ivory Coast, forced to work, beaten, threatened, and not paid. The legal argument was not "we don't have child slave labor in our supply chain, even in areas where we are the only buyers" but just "irrespective of whether we're buying the products of child slave labor, we cannot be sued for it." My belief now is that most cocoa from the large, cheap sources is not produced with ethical labor.
- gruez 3y ago>My belief now is that most cocoa from the large, cheap sources is not produced with ethical labor. Your comment unhelpfully frames the issue as a dichotomy between "100% ethical labor" and "everything else", where "everything else" could mean anywhere between 0.01% unethical labor to 100% unethical labor. As a chocolate maker that's inevitably going to have unethical labor in the supply chain, the best legal strategy is to head off all claims by establishing a precedent that you're not responsible, rather than trying to quash each individual accusation of unethical labor.
- abeppu 3y agoSure, there's a spectrum. Maybe you think union busting or the tipped minimum wage are also ethical concerns. But forced labor with trafficked children has to be at one end of the spectrum that has to fall into any definition of unethical labor. And yeah I think even a little child slavery is a problem.
- goldenshale 3y agoWait, you mean kids in developing countries work in order to help their families survive poverty. Oh my word, we should stop buying chocolate. Or wait, then nobody is making any money. Seriously, haven't we learned from the "Chinese sweatshop" hysteria throughout the 2000s that if people want to work they are often digging themselves out of a whole rather than being forced into one?
- dumpsterlid 3y ago[dead]
- throwboatyface 3y agoWhat if we, I don't know, did something to fix the poverty?
- gruez 3y agoEasier said than done.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoAntiunion aggression must be ruthless in these places. You can only grow some of these crops in certain regions of the world, yet despite this rare geographically granted monopoly, labor is paid perhaps the worst in these places, certainly much worse than in the western world that does nothing particularly unique in any one place. Nothing quite like coffee or chocolate or even the opium poppy. Unfortunately often when labor organizes, these movements are liable to be taken over by authoritarians who have no one’s collective interest in mind, because the power of being able to command a centrally planned economic force is just too great to not make such an attempt for the morally bankrupt charlatans among us.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Broken_Hippo 3y agoSomehow, you think that a child is digging themselves out of a hole and that working instead of schooling is not them being forced into one?
- MakeThemMoney 3y ago[flagged]
- pcurve 3y agoThe article is about Mars….
- archsurface 3y agoIt's a phase that countries go through eg Britain's chimney sweeps.
- woodruffw 3y agoBritain left the "chimney sweep" phase, in part, by extracting extraordinary amounts of value from its colonial holdings. Ghana was formed out of the remnants of four separate British colonies.
- archsurface 3y ago"in part".
- oh_sigh 3y agoHow much would Britain need to pay Ghana to get them over the child labor hump?
- AndrewKemendo 3y agoTony’s Chocolate entire business is about ending slave sourced chocolate [1] and IMO tastes the best I think they are most likely going to go out of business because CR showed they had the highest lead content [2] It’s always something [1] https://tonyschocolonely.com/uk/en/why-we-still-wont-say-were-100-slave-free https://tonyschocolonely.com/uk/en/why-we-still-wont-say-wer... [2] https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/lead-and-cadmium-in-dark-chocolate-a8480295550/ https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/lead-and-...
- appplication 3y agoWow I had no idea. How is it that we can have such high levels of heavy metals in such common food items? Is there no government monitoring?
- KPGv2 3y ago>Is there no government monitoring? There is, but it depends on how the food is classified whether it falls under the purview of the heavily funded or the poorly funded regulatory bodies.
- AdmiralAsshat 3y agoWell that sucks. My wife is a chocolate fiend and she recently went all-in on Toney's due to their cruelty-free thing. It tastes better than most other stuff you can find at the grocery store, to boot.
- harrisi 3y agoThe way the different chocolates are laid out, it does look like Tony's is the highest (it's ordered first), but it's actually the lowest of the "high in lead" category. Still high, but not the highest, which goes to Hershey's Special Dark Mildly Sweet chocolate and has just under twice as much lead as Tony's, according to the report.