10 ms·

Three American climbers solve the 'last great problem in the Himalayas'

205 points by carabiner 3y ago

303uru 3y ago
Good read here: https://trekebc.com/alan-rousseaus-north-face-climb-of-the-jannu/ https://trekebc.com/alan-rousseaus-north-face-climb-of-the-j... This is a wild accomplishment in the mountaineering world.
lbeckman314 3y ago
Thanks for sharing carabiner, phenomenal achievement! Here's a non-paywall/gifted link: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/01/us/climbing-jannu-north-face.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Ck0.XfWY.hDtzKxhNQLZS&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/01/us/climbing-jannu-north-f...
ghaff 3y ago
I thought it was a crazy looking peak when I was in the area. There are apparently (vaguely! relatively!) easier routes but it looks insane.
WoodEye 3y ago
Always wondered how granola types like this fund these expeditions. Are they privately funded by wealthy individuals or funded personally by working jobs in the off-season? Or family money?
- ghaff 3y ago
  Outdoor equipment manufacturers in a lot of cases.
- jonah 3y ago
  Mostly working jobs in the off-season and sponsorships like 'ghaff mentions. It's not _that_ expensive of a hobby. Maybe $5k of gear a piece plus travel expenses for a minimal expedition like this.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    IT is expensive, but not in $$$ terms. You have to dedicate your life to physical training which takes a lot of time. You have to have jobs that let you take a lot of time off. Nothing that is difficult per se, but still not normal. It is also expensive in life terms - local guides often do dangerous work making this possible.
- anon84873628 3y ago
  Combination of everything, including requests for donations. I gave a bit to help a friend climb Everest. He also got free gear and food from suppliers.
- LeifCarrotson 3y ago
  FTA: > Rousseau ... guides climbers in Utah and beyond. > Cornell ... summers around the rock-climbing hub of Yosemite National Park, working at a restaurant (owned by Anker, a mentor) to help fund his pursuits. He lives in a 2003 Freightliner van, with 320,000 miles, [down by the river]. > Marvell ... has a few sponsorship deals and also his own welding business ... climbing up and rappelling down oil platforms, timing repair work with the tides. Per gram, ultralight climbing gear is pretty expensive. But you can only carry so many grams with you. And yes, plane tickets to Tibet are $1600. Food isn't that expensive. And yes, they had some porters and pack animals to help them walk rations to base camp at 15,000 feet. A lot of people probably spend more on golfing than these guys spent on this epic. There's a huge difference between the cost of an 'expedition' like this and the cost of adventure tourism. If you're not paying for dozens of people to carry oxygen bottles and dry clothes and tents and warm meals it doesn't cost anything to go outside. And if you structure your life around spending more time climbing/surfing/hiking, it doesn't seem like such an impossibility to not clock in for a few months.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    "If you're not paying for dozens of people to carry oxygen bottles and dry clothes and tents and warm meals it doesn't cost anything to go outside." In some cases unfortunately it does. The local governments of the Himalayas sell quite expensive permits to climb the high summits. This one was probably free, but give it some time and popularity and you will need a expensive permit for doing this as well.
- dieselgate 3y ago
  Any, none, or all of the above plus sponsorships, ads, competition winnings etc. If an athlete is sponsored they might get a lot of gear and travel paid for along with maybe a cash stipend. There is a whole spectrum of what it means to be a "professional"
- lispisok 3y ago
  Upper middle class and wealthier parents. Even if they are living a budget "dirtbag" lifestyle they always have parents for a cash infusion if they need it. People who can afford not to work.
  - mym1990 3y ago
    Source or are you just spewing out your rear end?
    - mikestew 3y ago
      I’m not going to say that it is the common method, but I’ve seen what parent describes for multiple people. I’ll be the first to admit that I probably live in an upper middle class bubble these days, but it certainly happens. OTOH, I’ve known people that live in a trailer and had a Harley-Davidson motorcycle that was worth more than the trailer. So one doesn’t have to reach terribly far to find someone that is living their priorities. Just because you aren’t willing to work odd jobs and live in a van to finance your badminton career doesn’t mean others aren’t.
      - mym1990 3y ago
        I am not saying it is crazy to think that some people get by with the help of their parents, but to blatantly just generalize "these granola types" who just accomplished one of the absolute craziest climbs in history...comes off a little uneducated.
    - LesZedCB 3y ago
      well the American alpine club has an average income that's in the six figures iirc. however when there's an annual fee of $100 or so, it's a bit of selection bias. however one of their perks is the "Live your dream" grant where they fund amateur climbers to go on their dream trip once a year. it's application based but I've known people who've gone to the Karakorum on it.
      - mym1990 3y ago
- mym1990 3y ago
  Not related to this endeavor but I generally watch people pool enough money from jobs here and there to 'take a shot' at something like this(and obviously everyone's risk tolerance and personal achievement will vary). I do think it is difficult to have a steady career given the amount of dedication that is needed for fitness, planning, etc... for big trips.
- tomjakubowski 3y ago
  I think a lot of window washers do it to fund climbing trips
- jasonpeacock 3y ago
  Ed Viesturs' biography, "No Shortcuts to the Top", covers this well - you can see how he saves money, works various jobs, and pursues sponsorships to fund his Everest, K2, and other big-mountain expeditions. He'd get a trip all organized, then it will be aborted mid-climb due to weather or other issues, and he'd have to start all over again and take a few years until he can try again. It's also just a good read if you're interested in the topic.
- czinck 3y ago
  On top of what everyone else said about how they make money, lots of climbers at this level live outrageously frugally and so can easily save up. Marc-Andre Leclerc lived in a stairwell[0], and their dinners are rice and beans or "what was on sale at walmart". Think stereotypical startup incubator of bunk beds and ramen, there's only one goal and it's not day-to-day comfort. [0] http://marcleclerc.blogspot.com/2012/07/dreaded-first-blog-post.html http://marcleclerc.blogspot.com/2012/07/dreaded-first-blog-p...
  - hilux 3y ago
    That is awesome. I am inspired by people who sacrifice to achieve big goals - although if the goal is important enough, perhaps you don't feel the "sacrifice."
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  The climbers I know who have the time and money to do things like this fall into the latter category.
glaucon 3y ago
"Mount Jannu" and "The Jannu" ... neither heard of these phrases used to describe Jannu before - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbhakarna_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbhakarna_Mountain.
- liversage 3y ago
  It always irks me when 'Mount' is added as a prefix to a proper mountain name like 'Mount Annapurna', 'Mount Ama Dablam'. Should it then be 'Mount Mt. Everest'?
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    This occurs with all geographical features whenever a name crosses into another language whose speakers can't interpret the part of the name that means "river" / "mountain" / "fort" / "bridge" / "hills" / "vale" / etc.
  - xarope 3y ago
    In mountaineering, we just say Annapurna, and Ama Dablam. Another example, Khan Tengri, not Mt Khan Tengri (lol)
LesZedCB 3y ago
holy fucking shit that hero photo of the climber on the verglas is totally nuts! i've done a fair bit of ice climbing myself, but easy, fat waterfall stuff. leading a pitch like that at altitude with that kind of exposure makes my stomach absolutely drop. alpinists are totally crazy! <3
- mjhay 3y ago
  Yeah, I have no idea how really high-altitude climbers do it. I've climbed pitches of otherwise fairly easy alpine ice at about 6000m in Peru, and that was the hardest climbing I've ever done. I've never had my calves burn like that. I can't imagine leading on verglas like that at >7000m.
  - xarope 3y ago
    I have staggered up a 30% slope at 6000m, and remember taking a few steps and then having to have a breather (albeit with equipment and food weighing me down). Although I do ice climb at lower altitudes, I couldn't imagine effort to do the same at 6000m. What was it like? Make 2-3 moves, then stand for 30 seconds to catch your breath?!?
    - mjhay 3y ago
      Yeah, pretty much. I was well acclimatized, but there's no making up for that lack of oxygen.
- petsfed 3y ago
  Every time I whack a dinner-place sized piece of ice off, or absolutely bury my picks in the ice because any thing less feels dangerously insecure, I think about stuff like what's in that photo. I have no idea how I could ever climb something like the Smear of Fear, which looks like a fat easy waterfall compared to that photo.
  - blackguardx 3y ago
    Smear of Fear on Long Peak’s Diamond? Do you live in Colorado?
elzbardico 3y ago
I think the NYT should be a beacon of progress and start using the metric system. Reading things like 15500 feet in 2023 hurts.
- avdlinde 3y ago
  Things like "6,000 vertical feet of climbing, 60 meters of rope at a time" do stand out.
- drstewart 3y ago
  Oh the dramatics
carabiner 3y ago
Maybe the best point for a popular audience: > For alpinists, the public’s fascination with the highest mountains is a bit like judging an ocean swimmer by how deep the water is. Marvell has had similar queries from well-meaning acquaintances: How high is Jannu? “That’s not really the point,” he said. So you got stuff like Mt. Whitney in California, where you can walk to the top, and it's the highest point in the lower 48. Then you've got the same mountain but this route: https://gripped.com/news/new-13-pitch-5-13-on-mount-whitney/ https://gripped.com/news/new-13-pitch-5-13-on-mount-whitney/ which is dramatically more difficult. For climbers it's all about the route and max elevation is less important.
- Karellen 3y ago
  I wonder if the question a lot of the public are trying to ask is "How much vertical ascent is there in the climb?", but they're not familiar enough with climbing or its terminology to come up with the right wording in the moment, and it just comes out as "How high is it?" It's not like a lot of people would get much out of asking "How challenging is the climb?", because they'd have no real frame of reference for interpreting the answer. "How much up?" feels like a question that should be relevant, and to which the answer can be easily grasped.
- FartyMcFarter 3y ago
  Max elevation still matters a lot since it affects weather and oxygen levels.
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
How does the thin air/lack of oxygen not mess with them over that many days?
- buzzdenver 3y ago
  They're at really high altitudes only a low percentage of time
- jjulius 3y ago
  Acclimatization.
- GloriousKoji 3y ago
  The "death zone" starts at 26,000 feet. The peak of the mountain is about 1,000 feet under the death zone so supplemental oxygen isn't a requirement. That being said the effect of lower oxygen is you go slower. It took them a week to ascend 10k feet, and if you'll allow me to assume a spherical cow then a hypothetically similar climb at sea level could probably be done in a couple of days going by how fast top climbers climb El Capitan.
- carabiner 3y ago
  Eh maybe it does: https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/20/mountain-climbing-bad-for-the-brain/ https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/2...
- snowwrestler 3y ago
  It does, that’s one reason frostbite is such a risk in these high climbs. It’s harder for the body to generate heat because it’s got less oxygen to work with.
te 3y ago
As a civilian, I'm surprised to learn, with all the technical improvements in mountaineering gear, that frostbite on gloved hands is still an unsolved problem.
- LesZedCB 3y ago
  finger dexterity is important for technical climbing so thick gloves are a trade off. additionally, when hanging on to technical ice tools, your finger tip is doing a lot of work, so not a lot of circulation to keep the tissue healthy.
- zakary 3y ago
  My understanding is it has definitely been solved by the use of much thicker gloves or gloves with heating elements. But doing difficult technical climbing at very high altitudes also requires good dexterity and you are often up there for many days. Also lithium batteries don’t work much at all in temperatures that cold. I could imagine some kind of warm water tube system that takes heat from a heat exchanger on your chest and transports it to your hands and feet, and is pumped by the action of walking. Not sure if that’s been tried before. There’s a lot of great engineers who’ve done a lot of climbing so my guess is pretty anything that works sufficiently well to keep hands and feet warm, is also too complex, expensive or bulky to be useful in really extreme mountaineering environments.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - Crunchified 3y ago
    Lithiums don't work in cold temperatures? That's a new one on me. Many lithium battery formulations work in colder conditions than other common formulations. I don't read the NYT so didn't read the article, but were they climbing in temperatures well below -40° with exposed batteries? I know that lithiums are commonly used in balloon payloads that can get mighty cold!
    - lstodd 3y ago
lukasb 3y ago
North face of Jannu wearing North Face, no less
- liversage 3y ago
  The brand name 'The North Face' is inspired by mountaineering where the north face of a mountain often is the most interesting but also difficult side as it's always in the shade (in the northern hemisphere). E.g., the Alps have the famous classical north faces of Eiger, Matterhorn and Grandes Jorasses which are climbed by only the most accomplished mountaineers.
  - granzymes 3y ago
    Their logo is also based on Half Dome, an iconic rock formation in Yosemite.
subsubzero 3y ago
A little bit on why this peak is so hard. First off highly recommend watching Meru(mentioned on the NYtimes article) as the conditions look very similar on both mountains(Meru - being 21k feet), with Jammu being 4k feet higher in elevation. Judging from the pictures of the climb you have very steep walls which are not entirely ice/snow or all rock, but a mixture of both which means you need strong skills in both rock climbing routes 5.9+(grading for rock climbing, this being very difficult) and dealing with snowy alpine conditions and using ice climbing axes as well as crampons. My guess is they switched footwear from boots with crampons to rock climbing shoes based on the conditions of the wall. So you have all the skills above and now you have to deal with extreme cold and weather conditions that are positively artic(-30 to -40f at nights). In addition you are at a zone where if someone makes a mistake and gets seriously hurt that person most likely is dead and it could lead to the others in the party also dying, its why picking your partner is really really important. Lastly the biggest elephant in the room - elevation. Despite how fit you are and well trained this can be a complete blocker, some people just get altitude sickness above a certain height and have to turn around to lower elevations. So you are doing a route like climbing el capitan but at 20,000+ feet, and unlike el capitan you have ice and snow as well as weather which is never seen in yosemite, so hope this illustrates how difficult this summit was. Hats off to all three climbers and hope that frostbitten finger makes a recovery.
- wetmore 3y ago
  > My guess is they switched footwear from boots with crampons to rock climbing shoes based on the conditions of the wall. Just a nit, the grade is M7 AI5+ A0 and doesn't include a free climbing grade. I would assume they stayed in their boots the whole time and did a lot of mixed climbing.
  - hackernewds 3y ago
    would you mind elaborating or linking to this grading notation? not sure what to even look for
    - whymauri 3y ago
neonate 3y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20231201210754/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/01/us/climbing-jannu-north-face.html https://web.archive.org/web/20231201210754/https://www.nytim...
ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago
The climbs are basically pure dice rolls. Alot of regular human beings could climb these mountains, they would just die 80% of the time. These climbers might only die 10-20% of the time. But they always do in the end. Still, a riviting exhibit of human exploration.
- yeahwhatever10 3y ago
  That is how I felt when watching the documentary on Marc-Andre Leclerc, eventually the dice were going to roll against him and they did.
- dilyevsky 3y ago
  You clearly underestimate the amount of skill and tenacity involved here. I can tell you these percentages are waaay off and more like 100% death sentence for "regular" humans (if they can even do the approach). These are like olympic-level athletes (gold medalist kind).
  - dang 3y ago
    Can you please make your substantive points without swipes? This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. If you know more than someone else, that's great, but in that case please share some of what you know, so the rest of us can learn. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=share%20know%20learn%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
    - dilyevsky 3y ago
      The original comment also felt like a swipe or at least slightly disrespectful so hence my reply. But you're right - rules are rules so I edited my comment =)
  - hackerlight 3y ago
    Agreed on the 100% for regular humans, but what would the % be for this calibre of climbers?
mym1990 3y ago
This is an amazing achievement, almost unfathomable the level of fitness, trust in your teammates, and expertise that they need to even have a shot at this thing.
dilyevsky 3y ago
Nice! I was lucky to witness Jackson on Moose's Tooth in Alaska a few years back. He climbed solo (unroped) and caught up with us right before the ridge starting like 5 hours later from the camp than we did lol! I think i still have some photos around of us shooting bb guns in the camp next day
sizzzzlerz 3y ago
This ranks right up there with Hillary/Norgay first Everest summit and Alex Honnold's free-solo climb of El Capitan. Amazing feat, guys! Well done.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
Is K2 fully solved yet?
- snowwrestler 3y ago
  It’s commercially guided now, unfortunately.
- dilyevsky 3y ago
  K2 has finally been successfully climbed in the winter last year if you’re referring to that
gambiting 3y ago
"The first two days involved about 6,000 vertical feet of climbing, 60 meters of rope at a time." Can someone explain to me, who is nytimes writing this article for, exactly? Only Brits mix units like this, but this is an American publication - so what gives? Why not just stick to meters or feet throughout and be consistent?
- hcrisp 3y ago
  Probably referring to pitch lengths. Climbing ropes are generally ~60 meters (200 feet), or one pitch.
  - frenchy 3y ago
    More accurately: probably referring to the length of their rope (and thus max pitch lengths). With alpine climbing, the actual pitch length can be all over the place due to a variety of reasons.
- burkaman 3y ago
  This is common in the American climbing community, rope lengths are always in meters but people often use feet for wall/mountain heights. 60m is a standard category of rope, so it would be confusing (for climbers at least) to call it 196ft or 200ft rope. It's also common to talk about 4000-footers in New Hampshire and 13ers in Colorado, so I guess that's why (some) people stick to feet for mountain heights. I agree it doesn't make sense because sometimes you have to convert in your head to see if your rope is long enough, but it's just the custom here for whatever reason.
  - qwertox 3y ago
    This reminded me of the video "Why does Aviation have SO Many UNITS of Measurement?" [0] from "Mentour Now!". It's generally worth watching since units are an important part of our lives. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBq-WwmQ8KM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBq-WwmQ8KM
- devjab 3y ago
Metacelsus 3y ago
This reminds me of: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/J3wemDGtsy5gzD3xa/toni-kurz-and-the-insanity-of-climbing-mountains https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/J3wemDGtsy5gzD3xa/toni-kurz-...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
quickthrower2 3y ago
This has all the pictures: https://archive.is/sXo1V https://archive.is/sXo1V
bandyaboot 3y ago
I never cease to be amazed by some of these world class climbers. The number of elite level attributes that a person has to possess to pull off these feats is mind-boggling. Skill, focus, drive, cajones…to name a few.
Aschebescher 3y ago
Archived without paywall: https://archive.ph/sXo1V https://archive.ph/sXo1V
Malime 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36147388 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36147388
hasoleju 3y ago
> “but they’ll need to accept the likelihood that they’re buying themselves a one-way ticket.” The sensation of this achievement seems to be mainly grounded in the fact, that there was a high probability of death. I understand that this thrill is a very good hook for media coverage. But as far as I understood from reading, the main difficulty was the technical climbing part. Combined with the low oxygen atmosphere and low temperature of high altitude. I really hope that they knew what they were doing and mitigated the risk of getting hurt. Maybe sometimes the risk of death is exaggerated in this articles to build suspense for the readers. I think it is bad if the "Risk your life to get famous" part of this adventure is stressed too much. > The first two days involved about 6,000 vertical feet of climbing, 60 meters of rope at a time. As a European used to the metric system reading a sentence like this is a real challenge. I don't know why you measure hight of a mountain in feet and length of a rope in meters.
- brazzy 3y ago
  >But as far as I understood from reading, the main difficulty was the technical climbing part. Combined with the low oxygen atmosphere and low temperature of high altitude. The danger of avalanches, weather changes, and the non-availability of rescue if anything goes wrong also plays a part. Alpine climbing is a package deal of difficulty and deadliness, and these aspects are hard to disentangle. Every competent alpine climbers does what they can to mitigate risks, but there is a very significant amount of risk that cannot be mitigated except by not doing difficult alpine climbing.
- rollcat 3y ago
  I can share my perspective (downhill longboarding rather than climbing, surprisingly lots of parallels, while on average most likely less fatal it definitely can get you killed or wheelchaired). There are exactly zero people who do these kinds of sports and have a deathwish, because every deathwish almost immediately comes true. On top of that, while the sport could technically be practiced alone, you really really really need buddies to rely on - they're gonna hold your life in their hands, you're gonna hold theirs. The "stay safe" mantra is fundamentally embedded into the groupthink. The entire sport *is* risk management. Picking your gear, picking the route, picking your friends, knowing (and consciously pushing) your limits, knowing when to back off, dealing with trauma of injury, of seeing others injured or dead. Media of course can and will toot the "these insane men" horn, thrill sells and an impartial report would be boring. We're guilty of this too! The boys in the crew often shoot cool videos to attract clicks and sponsorships, it's how the best of us turn the hobby into a trade. We're not motivated by danger, we're wary of it as a constraint under which we can express ourselves.
ur-whale 3y ago
With pictures: https://archive.is/j3zRC https://archive.is/j3zRC

205 points by carabiner 3y ago

Good read here: https://trekebc.com/alan-rousseaus-north-face-climb-of-the-jannu/ https://trekebc.com/alan-rousseaus-north-face-climb-of-the-j... This is a wild accomplishment in the mountaineering world.

lbeckman314 3y ago

Thanks for sharing carabiner, phenomenal achievement! Here's a non-paywall/gifted link: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/01/us/climbing-jannu-north-face.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Ck0.XfWY.hDtzKxhNQLZS&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/01/us/climbing-jannu-north-f...

ghaff 3y ago

I thought it was a crazy looking peak when I was in the area. There are apparently (vaguely! relatively!) easier routes but it looks insane.

WoodEye 3y ago

Always wondered how granola types like this fund these expeditions. Are they privately funded by wealthy individuals or funded personally by working jobs in the off-season? Or family money?

ghaff 3y ago
Outdoor equipment manufacturers in a lot of cases.
jonah 3y ago
Mostly working jobs in the off-season and sponsorships like 'ghaff mentions. It's not _that_ expensive of a hobby. Maybe $5k of gear a piece plus travel expenses for a minimal expedition like this.
- bluGill 3y ago
  IT is expensive, but not in $$$ terms. You have to dedicate your life to physical training which takes a lot of time. You have to have jobs that let you take a lot of time off. Nothing that is difficult per se, but still not normal. It is also expensive in life terms - local guides often do dangerous work making this possible.
anon84873628 3y ago
Combination of everything, including requests for donations. I gave a bit to help a friend climb Everest. He also got free gear and food from suppliers.
LeifCarrotson 3y ago
FTA: > Rousseau ... guides climbers in Utah and beyond. > Cornell ... summers around the rock-climbing hub of Yosemite National Park, working at a restaurant (owned by Anker, a mentor) to help fund his pursuits. He lives in a 2003 Freightliner van, with 320,000 miles, [down by the river]. > Marvell ... has a few sponsorship deals and also his own welding business ... climbing up and rappelling down oil platforms, timing repair work with the tides. Per gram, ultralight climbing gear is pretty expensive. But you can only carry so many grams with you. And yes, plane tickets to Tibet are $1600. Food isn't that expensive. And yes, they had some porters and pack animals to help them walk rations to base camp at 15,000 feet. A lot of people probably spend more on golfing than these guys spent on this epic. There's a huge difference between the cost of an 'expedition' like this and the cost of adventure tourism. If you're not paying for dozens of people to carry oxygen bottles and dry clothes and tents and warm meals it doesn't cost anything to go outside. And if you structure your life around spending more time climbing/surfing/hiking, it doesn't seem like such an impossibility to not clock in for a few months.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  "If you're not paying for dozens of people to carry oxygen bottles and dry clothes and tents and warm meals it doesn't cost anything to go outside." In some cases unfortunately it does. The local governments of the Himalayas sell quite expensive permits to climb the high summits. This one was probably free, but give it some time and popularity and you will need a expensive permit for doing this as well.
dieselgate 3y ago
Any, none, or all of the above plus sponsorships, ads, competition winnings etc. If an athlete is sponsored they might get a lot of gear and travel paid for along with maybe a cash stipend. There is a whole spectrum of what it means to be a "professional"
lispisok 3y ago
Upper middle class and wealthier parents. Even if they are living a budget "dirtbag" lifestyle they always have parents for a cash infusion if they need it. People who can afford not to work.
- mym1990 3y ago
  Source or are you just spewing out your rear end?
  - mikestew 3y ago
    I’m not going to say that it is the common method, but I’ve seen what parent describes for multiple people. I’ll be the first to admit that I probably live in an upper middle class bubble these days, but it certainly happens. OTOH, I’ve known people that live in a trailer and had a Harley-Davidson motorcycle that was worth more than the trailer. So one doesn’t have to reach terribly far to find someone that is living their priorities. Just because you aren’t willing to work odd jobs and live in a van to finance your badminton career doesn’t mean others aren’t.
    - mym1990 3y ago
      I am not saying it is crazy to think that some people get by with the help of their parents, but to blatantly just generalize "these granola types" who just accomplished one of the absolute craziest climbs in history...comes off a little uneducated.
  - LesZedCB 3y ago
    well the American alpine club has an average income that's in the six figures iirc. however when there's an annual fee of $100 or so, it's a bit of selection bias. however one of their perks is the "Live your dream" grant where they fund amateur climbers to go on their dream trip once a year. it's application based but I've known people who've gone to the Karakorum on it.
    - mym1990 3y ago
mym1990 3y ago
Not related to this endeavor but I generally watch people pool enough money from jobs here and there to 'take a shot' at something like this(and obviously everyone's risk tolerance and personal achievement will vary). I do think it is difficult to have a steady career given the amount of dedication that is needed for fitness, planning, etc... for big trips.
tomjakubowski 3y ago
I think a lot of window washers do it to fund climbing trips
jasonpeacock 3y ago
Ed Viesturs' biography, "No Shortcuts to the Top", covers this well - you can see how he saves money, works various jobs, and pursues sponsorships to fund his Everest, K2, and other big-mountain expeditions. He'd get a trip all organized, then it will be aborted mid-climb due to weather or other issues, and he'd have to start all over again and take a few years until he can try again. It's also just a good read if you're interested in the topic.
czinck 3y ago
On top of what everyone else said about how they make money, lots of climbers at this level live outrageously frugally and so can easily save up. Marc-Andre Leclerc lived in a stairwell[0], and their dinners are rice and beans or "what was on sale at walmart". Think stereotypical startup incubator of bunk beds and ramen, there's only one goal and it's not day-to-day comfort. [0] http://marcleclerc.blogspot.com/2012/07/dreaded-first-blog-post.html http://marcleclerc.blogspot.com/2012/07/dreaded-first-blog-p...
- hilux 3y ago
  That is awesome. I am inspired by people who sacrifice to achieve big goals - although if the goal is important enough, perhaps you don't feel the "sacrifice."
heavyset_go 3y ago
The climbers I know who have the time and money to do things like this fall into the latter category.

glaucon 3y ago

"Mount Jannu" and "The Jannu" ... neither heard of these phrases used to describe Jannu before - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbhakarna_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumbhakarna_Mountain.

liversage 3y ago
It always irks me when 'Mount' is added as a prefix to a proper mountain name like 'Mount Annapurna', 'Mount Ama Dablam'. Should it then be 'Mount Mt. Everest'?
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  This occurs with all geographical features whenever a name crosses into another language whose speakers can't interpret the part of the name that means "river" / "mountain" / "fort" / "bridge" / "hills" / "vale" / etc.
- xarope 3y ago
  In mountaineering, we just say Annapurna, and Ama Dablam. Another example, Khan Tengri, not Mt Khan Tengri (lol)

LesZedCB 3y ago

holy fucking shit that hero photo of the climber on the verglas is totally nuts! i've done a fair bit of ice climbing myself, but easy, fat waterfall stuff. leading a pitch like that at altitude with that kind of exposure makes my stomach absolutely drop. alpinists are totally crazy! <3

mjhay 3y ago
Yeah, I have no idea how really high-altitude climbers do it. I've climbed pitches of otherwise fairly easy alpine ice at about 6000m in Peru, and that was the hardest climbing I've ever done. I've never had my calves burn like that. I can't imagine leading on verglas like that at >7000m.
- xarope 3y ago
  I have staggered up a 30% slope at 6000m, and remember taking a few steps and then having to have a breather (albeit with equipment and food weighing me down). Although I do ice climb at lower altitudes, I couldn't imagine effort to do the same at 6000m. What was it like? Make 2-3 moves, then stand for 30 seconds to catch your breath?!?
  - mjhay 3y ago
    Yeah, pretty much. I was well acclimatized, but there's no making up for that lack of oxygen.
petsfed 3y ago
Every time I whack a dinner-place sized piece of ice off, or absolutely bury my picks in the ice because any thing less feels dangerously insecure, I think about stuff like what's in that photo. I have no idea how I could ever climb something like the Smear of Fear, which looks like a fat easy waterfall compared to that photo.
- blackguardx 3y ago
  Smear of Fear on Long Peak’s Diamond? Do you live in Colorado?

elzbardico 3y ago

I think the NYT should be a beacon of progress and start using the metric system. Reading things like 15500 feet in 2023 hurts.

avdlinde 3y ago
Things like "6,000 vertical feet of climbing, 60 meters of rope at a time" do stand out.
drstewart 3y ago
Oh the dramatics

carabiner 3y ago

Maybe the best point for a popular audience: > For alpinists, the public’s fascination with the highest mountains is a bit like judging an ocean swimmer by how deep the water is. Marvell has had similar queries from well-meaning acquaintances: How high is Jannu? “That’s not really the point,” he said. So you got stuff like Mt. Whitney in California, where you can walk to the top, and it's the highest point in the lower 48. Then you've got the same mountain but this route: https://gripped.com/news/new-13-pitch-5-13-on-mount-whitney/ https://gripped.com/news/new-13-pitch-5-13-on-mount-whitney/ which is dramatically more difficult. For climbers it's all about the route and max elevation is less important.

Karellen 3y ago
I wonder if the question a lot of the public are trying to ask is "How much vertical ascent is there in the climb?", but they're not familiar enough with climbing or its terminology to come up with the right wording in the moment, and it just comes out as "How high is it?" It's not like a lot of people would get much out of asking "How challenging is the climb?", because they'd have no real frame of reference for interpreting the answer. "How much up?" feels like a question that should be relevant, and to which the answer can be easily grasped.
FartyMcFarter 3y ago
Max elevation still matters a lot since it affects weather and oxygen levels.

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

How does the thin air/lack of oxygen not mess with them over that many days?

buzzdenver 3y ago
They're at really high altitudes only a low percentage of time
jjulius 3y ago
Acclimatization.
GloriousKoji 3y ago
The "death zone" starts at 26,000 feet. The peak of the mountain is about 1,000 feet under the death zone so supplemental oxygen isn't a requirement. That being said the effect of lower oxygen is you go slower. It took them a week to ascend 10k feet, and if you'll allow me to assume a spherical cow then a hypothetically similar climb at sea level could probably be done in a couple of days going by how fast top climbers climb El Capitan.
carabiner 3y ago
Eh maybe it does: https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/20/mountain-climbing-bad-for-the-brain/ https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/2...
snowwrestler 3y ago
It does, that’s one reason frostbite is such a risk in these high climbs. It’s harder for the body to generate heat because it’s got less oxygen to work with.

te 3y ago

As a civilian, I'm surprised to learn, with all the technical improvements in mountaineering gear, that frostbite on gloved hands is still an unsolved problem.

LesZedCB 3y ago
finger dexterity is important for technical climbing so thick gloves are a trade off. additionally, when hanging on to technical ice tools, your finger tip is doing a lot of work, so not a lot of circulation to keep the tissue healthy.
zakary 3y ago
My understanding is it has definitely been solved by the use of much thicker gloves or gloves with heating elements. But doing difficult technical climbing at very high altitudes also requires good dexterity and you are often up there for many days. Also lithium batteries don’t work much at all in temperatures that cold. I could imagine some kind of warm water tube system that takes heat from a heat exchanger on your chest and transports it to your hands and feet, and is pumped by the action of walking. Not sure if that’s been tried before. There’s a lot of great engineers who’ve done a lot of climbing so my guess is pretty anything that works sufficiently well to keep hands and feet warm, is also too complex, expensive or bulky to be useful in really extreme mountaineering environments.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Crunchified 3y ago
  Lithiums don't work in cold temperatures? That's a new one on me. Many lithium battery formulations work in colder conditions than other common formulations. I don't read the NYT so didn't read the article, but were they climbing in temperatures well below -40° with exposed batteries? I know that lithiums are commonly used in balloon payloads that can get mighty cold!
  - lstodd 3y ago

lukasb 3y ago

North face of Jannu wearing North Face, no less

liversage 3y ago
The brand name 'The North Face' is inspired by mountaineering where the north face of a mountain often is the most interesting but also difficult side as it's always in the shade (in the northern hemisphere). E.g., the Alps have the famous classical north faces of Eiger, Matterhorn and Grandes Jorasses which are climbed by only the most accomplished mountaineers.
- granzymes 3y ago
  Their logo is also based on Half Dome, an iconic rock formation in Yosemite.

subsubzero 3y ago

A little bit on why this peak is so hard. First off highly recommend watching Meru(mentioned on the NYtimes article) as the conditions look very similar on both mountains(Meru - being 21k feet), with Jammu being 4k feet higher in elevation. Judging from the pictures of the climb you have very steep walls which are not entirely ice/snow or all rock, but a mixture of both which means you need strong skills in both rock climbing routes 5.9+(grading for rock climbing, this being very difficult) and dealing with snowy alpine conditions and using ice climbing axes as well as crampons. My guess is they switched footwear from boots with crampons to rock climbing shoes based on the conditions of the wall. So you have all the skills above and now you have to deal with extreme cold and weather conditions that are positively artic(-30 to -40f at nights). In addition you are at a zone where if someone makes a mistake and gets seriously hurt that person most likely is dead and it could lead to the others in the party also dying, its why picking your partner is really really important. Lastly the biggest elephant in the room - elevation. Despite how fit you are and well trained this can be a complete blocker, some people just get altitude sickness above a certain height and have to turn around to lower elevations. So you are doing a route like climbing el capitan but at 20,000+ feet, and unlike el capitan you have ice and snow as well as weather which is never seen in yosemite, so hope this illustrates how difficult this summit was. Hats off to all three climbers and hope that frostbitten finger makes a recovery.

wetmore 3y ago
> My guess is they switched footwear from boots with crampons to rock climbing shoes based on the conditions of the wall. Just a nit, the grade is M7 AI5+ A0 and doesn't include a free climbing grade. I would assume they stayed in their boots the whole time and did a lot of mixed climbing.
- hackernewds 3y ago
  would you mind elaborating or linking to this grading notation? not sure what to even look for
  - whymauri 3y ago

neonate 3y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20231201210754/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/01/us/climbing-jannu-north-face.html https://web.archive.org/web/20231201210754/https://www.nytim...

ldjkfkdsjnv 3y ago

The climbs are basically pure dice rolls. Alot of regular human beings could climb these mountains, they would just die 80% of the time. These climbers might only die 10-20% of the time. But they always do in the end. Still, a riviting exhibit of human exploration.

yeahwhatever10 3y ago
That is how I felt when watching the documentary on Marc-Andre Leclerc, eventually the dice were going to roll against him and they did.
dilyevsky 3y ago
You clearly underestimate the amount of skill and tenacity involved here. I can tell you these percentages are waaay off and more like 100% death sentence for "regular" humans (if they can even do the approach). These are like olympic-level athletes (gold medalist kind).
- dang 3y ago
  Can you please make your substantive points without swipes? This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. If you know more than someone else, that's great, but in that case please share some of what you know, so the rest of us can learn. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=share%20know%20learn%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
  - dilyevsky 3y ago
    The original comment also felt like a swipe or at least slightly disrespectful so hence my reply. But you're right - rules are rules so I edited my comment =)
- hackerlight 3y ago
  Agreed on the 100% for regular humans, but what would the % be for this calibre of climbers?

mym1990 3y ago

This is an amazing achievement, almost unfathomable the level of fitness, trust in your teammates, and expertise that they need to even have a shot at this thing.

dilyevsky 3y ago

Nice! I was lucky to witness Jackson on Moose's Tooth in Alaska a few years back. He climbed solo (unroped) and caught up with us right before the ridge starting like 5 hours later from the camp than we did lol! I think i still have some photos around of us shooting bb guns in the camp next day

sizzzzlerz 3y ago

This ranks right up there with Hillary/Norgay first Everest summit and Alex Honnold's free-solo climb of El Capitan. Amazing feat, guys! Well done.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago

Is K2 fully solved yet?

snowwrestler 3y ago
It’s commercially guided now, unfortunately.
dilyevsky 3y ago
K2 has finally been successfully climbed in the winter last year if you’re referring to that

gambiting 3y ago

"The first two days involved about 6,000 vertical feet of climbing, 60 meters of rope at a time." Can someone explain to me, who is nytimes writing this article for, exactly? Only Brits mix units like this, but this is an American publication - so what gives? Why not just stick to meters or feet throughout and be consistent?

hcrisp 3y ago
Probably referring to pitch lengths. Climbing ropes are generally ~60 meters (200 feet), or one pitch.
- frenchy 3y ago
  More accurately: probably referring to the length of their rope (and thus max pitch lengths). With alpine climbing, the actual pitch length can be all over the place due to a variety of reasons.
burkaman 3y ago
This is common in the American climbing community, rope lengths are always in meters but people often use feet for wall/mountain heights. 60m is a standard category of rope, so it would be confusing (for climbers at least) to call it 196ft or 200ft rope. It's also common to talk about 4000-footers in New Hampshire and 13ers in Colorado, so I guess that's why (some) people stick to feet for mountain heights. I agree it doesn't make sense because sometimes you have to convert in your head to see if your rope is long enough, but it's just the custom here for whatever reason.
- qwertox 3y ago
  This reminded me of the video "Why does Aviation have SO Many UNITS of Measurement?" [0] from "Mentour Now!". It's generally worth watching since units are an important part of our lives. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBq-WwmQ8KM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBq-WwmQ8KM
devjab 3y ago

Metacelsus 3y ago

This reminds me of: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/J3wemDGtsy5gzD3xa/toni-kurz-and-the-insanity-of-climbing-mountains https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/J3wemDGtsy5gzD3xa/toni-kurz-...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

quickthrower2 3y ago

This has all the pictures: https://archive.is/sXo1V https://archive.is/sXo1V

bandyaboot 3y ago

I never cease to be amazed by some of these world class climbers. The number of elite level attributes that a person has to possess to pull off these feats is mind-boggling. Skill, focus, drive, cajones…to name a few.

Aschebescher 3y ago

Archived without paywall: https://archive.ph/sXo1V https://archive.ph/sXo1V

Malime 3y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36147388 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36147388

hasoleju 3y ago

> “but they’ll need to accept the likelihood that they’re buying themselves a one-way ticket.” The sensation of this achievement seems to be mainly grounded in the fact, that there was a high probability of death. I understand that this thrill is a very good hook for media coverage. But as far as I understood from reading, the main difficulty was the technical climbing part. Combined with the low oxygen atmosphere and low temperature of high altitude. I really hope that they knew what they were doing and mitigated the risk of getting hurt. Maybe sometimes the risk of death is exaggerated in this articles to build suspense for the readers. I think it is bad if the "Risk your life to get famous" part of this adventure is stressed too much. > The first two days involved about 6,000 vertical feet of climbing, 60 meters of rope at a time. As a European used to the metric system reading a sentence like this is a real challenge. I don't know why you measure hight of a mountain in feet and length of a rope in meters.

brazzy 3y ago
>But as far as I understood from reading, the main difficulty was the technical climbing part. Combined with the low oxygen atmosphere and low temperature of high altitude. The danger of avalanches, weather changes, and the non-availability of rescue if anything goes wrong also plays a part. Alpine climbing is a package deal of difficulty and deadliness, and these aspects are hard to disentangle. Every competent alpine climbers does what they can to mitigate risks, but there is a very significant amount of risk that cannot be mitigated except by not doing difficult alpine climbing.
rollcat 3y ago
I can share my perspective (downhill longboarding rather than climbing, surprisingly lots of parallels, while on average most likely less fatal it definitely can get you killed or wheelchaired). There are exactly zero people who do these kinds of sports and have a deathwish, because every deathwish almost immediately comes true. On top of that, while the sport could technically be practiced alone, you really really really need buddies to rely on - they're gonna hold your life in their hands, you're gonna hold theirs. The "stay safe" mantra is fundamentally embedded into the groupthink. The entire sport *is* risk management. Picking your gear, picking the route, picking your friends, knowing (and consciously pushing) your limits, knowing when to back off, dealing with trauma of injury, of seeing others injured or dead. Media of course can and will toot the "these insane men" horn, thrill sells and an impartial report would be boring. We're guilty of this too! The boys in the crew often shoot cool videos to attract clicks and sponsorships, it's how the best of us turn the hobby into a trade. We're not motivated by danger, we're wary of it as a constraint under which we can express ourselves.

ur-whale 3y ago

With pictures: https://archive.is/j3zRC https://archive.is/j3zRC