6 ms·

Mechanic shortage means longer waits, $100k salaries for some technicians

39 points by pg_1234 3y ago

robcohen 3y ago
Average pay for a mechanic in NY is $52K. Average nationwide is about $49K. Average nationwide salary by some estimates is $59,428. Plus, it's a job that isn't considered "cool" or "attractive" to anyone but teenage boys. Yet somehow we still get articles like this that are basically saying "wow, the top 1% of a mediocre-paying field gets 6 figs, why oh why are people not clamoring to work? So tired of this low-intelligence conversation.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >So tired of this low-intelligence conversation. It's more like propaganda to attract more people into the field.
- Manuel_D 3y ago
  The US median income is 31,133 USD. So these mechanics are making ~2x average income. Furthermore, the growth over recent years has been significant 12-15% over the last couple years. Yes, it's attention-grabbing to focus on the top few percent, but it's equally low-effort to dismiss the the core message of the article.
  - robcohen 3y ago
    https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html It’s not that low, it’s higher according to many sources.
    - Manuel_D 3y ago
      "Average wage index" sounds like it's measuring mean, not median.
      - robcohen 3y ago
        I mean there’s more sources but ok.
- AngryData 3y ago
  And you also have to consider the amount of money they put into their tools too. Mechanics need to be holding tens of thousands of dollars in tools, they aren't given tools by their employer to use. And if they work for more than a few years in that job there are health issues that arise. My mechanic father for example needed both shoulders replaced, has nerve damage from tool vibration, and his hands are basically permenant claws that can still pull a wrench but prevent him from opening a jar or bottle of pop without a tool to help grip it.
  - tomcam 3y ago
    > And you also have to consider the amount of money they put into their tools too. And training. One of the smartest people I know spent $50K to get trained as a certified Ford mechanic, then another $50K on tools. He became a general contractor because working on houses used the exact same principles but everything is way easier because it's at a far larger scale. And sorry about your dad. A lot of these guys sacrifice their knees as well.
    - badpun 3y ago
      > He became a general contractor because working on houses used the exact same principles but everything is way easier because it's at a far larger scale. There's way more lifting and carrying of heavy things when dealing with houses. Apartments without elevators are the worst, since you need to carry the heavy stuff up and down the stairs.
  - solarman5000 3y ago
    Tools are a lot cheaper if you don't listen to the hype from the snap-on guy
- csteubs 3y ago
  I'm not sure what aspect of this conversation is "low intelligence", but automotive technician salary data doesn't often match reality where techs can (and often do) make close to double their "official" salary in side jobs. I'm a full-time engineering manager at a startup in LA, and I do repair gigs in my garage during the evenings and on weekends--all word-of-mouth referrals from former and returning customers. I've made a shade over $30k after expenses this year doing 2-3 jobs a week. Most are catalytic converter replacements that I charge a flat $500 for on $145 in parts; takes me an hour per. I've done everything from rear main seals to fuel pump replacements to in-and-out oil/filter changes. What your comment and sentiment misses, I think, is that a significant percentage of mechanics do shade-tree jobs that won't ever be accounted for in official reports. Dealers and shops have become extremely hit-and-miss, part quality fell dramatically during the pandemic (ask me how I know), and thrifty consumers are more inclined to spend money on independent mechanics that work out of a small shop; there's a ton of money not being accounted for in the process. Maybe not "cool" or "attractive" to you, but I'd love to never have to touch a keyboard again and spend my time working on cars, boats, and fabrication.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    > consumers are more inclined to spend money on independent mechanics that work out of a small shop; I’d love to have this option in the UK. Everything being over regulated the type of service is all but extinct.
    - badpun 3y ago
      These guys aren't legit. It's usually just a guy fixing cars and taking money into his pocket in exchange.
  - sokka_h2otribe 3y ago
    Catalytic converter replacements? Are you talking about when they get removed or when they get genuinely replaced?
    - csteubs 3y ago
DaveExeter 3y ago
I bet if it was $100k salaries for ALL technicians there would be no shortage. Of course this would cut into profits.
- missedthecue 3y ago
  It would do more than "cut into profits", it would inflate repair and maintenance bills for your average person dramatically. For automobile servicing, labor costs are about 50% of the bill. Double salaries from $52k national average to $100k and everyone is now everyone is getting hit with 25% higher costs at the mechanic. That money has got to come from somewhere. And for all the owner-operated mechanic garages out there, which is probably the majority of them, their profit IS the labor bill. "cutting into profits" while raising salary are literally opposite concepts.
  - rat9988 3y ago
    if it's owner operated then the owner isn't concerned by this salary discussion.
  - notyofriend 3y ago
    Mechanics rates are over 100$ at even the cheapest shop. The overhead rate is over 60% which is kind of the problem. At dealers the overhead rate is probably close to 80-90%. There just isn’t enough pass through for folks doing the work
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  What do your think the profit margin is for mechanic shops and most service businesses?
  - mindslight 3y ago
    If we consider the 'profit margin' to include all the white collar make-work jobs that aren't performing the actual work, then pretty damn high. Last time I was at a stealership there was a whole line of people just sitting at desks pretending to be shop techs but actually just doing customer management. Never mind the entire behind-the-scenes management structure. Or you call a plumber for a simple repair and there goes one kilodollar, while the guy doing the work gets a few hundred of it. The rest is all going to the overhead of phone answerer, scheduler, manager, business entity owner, franchiser, etc. I suspect the majority of "cost disease" is going to such intermediaries, and the thing about intermediaries is they know their main job is maintaining their position.
Manuel_D 3y ago
Related economist article: https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/11/30/a-new-age-of-the-worker-will-overturn-conventional-thinking https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/11/30/a-new-age-of-th... Blue collar workers are performing pretty over recent years.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
"Using a bare-bones overlapping generations model, we examine an occupation facing obsolescence. We show that workers must be compensated to enter the occupation–receiving what we dub obsolescence rents–with fewer and older workers remaining in the occupation. We investigate the market for teamsters at the dawn of the automotive truck as an á propos parallel to truckers themselves, as self-driving trucks crest the horizon. As widespread adoption of trucks drew nearer, the number of teamsters fell, the occupation became ‘grayer’, and teamster wages rose, as predicted by the model." [1] ICE vehicles aren't going away. But as they're replaced, the willingness (and ability) to pay for repairs will go down. [1] https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31743/w31743.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31743/w317...
Dudester230602 3y ago
I guess if mechanics were not people, private equity would buy them all.
Gunax 3y ago
Employers say 'we cant find anyone and we are offering $XYZ' where $XYZ is some astronomical amount. And yet the experience of applicants is often very different. They apply and never hear back. Or they never receive offers that match. So what's the discrepancy? Either one side is lying, or there is something being miscommunicated. My guess is that often what employers mean is 'we cant find anyone with these specific skills at this price point'. You have to realize there is a finite number of people with X years experience in Y. If you want to know how many people have 10 years experience doing Y, it's upper bounded by the number of people who were employed in Y 10 years ago.
- notyofriend 3y ago
  Nobody wants to risk raising wages as they have to do it for everyone or risk quitting. Hiring 1 guy at 10% more might cost you the labor cost if 2 people so it’s a big risk for employers

39 points by pg_1234 3y ago

Average pay for a mechanic in NY is $52K. Average nationwide is about $49K. Average nationwide salary by some estimates is $59,428. Plus, it's a job that isn't considered "cool" or "attractive" to anyone but teenage boys. Yet somehow we still get articles like this that are basically saying "wow, the top 1% of a mediocre-paying field gets 6 figs, why oh why are people not clamoring to work? So tired of this low-intelligence conversation.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>So tired of this low-intelligence conversation. It's more like propaganda to attract more people into the field.
Manuel_D 3y ago
The US median income is 31,133 USD. So these mechanics are making ~2x average income. Furthermore, the growth over recent years has been significant 12-15% over the last couple years. Yes, it's attention-grabbing to focus on the top few percent, but it's equally low-effort to dismiss the the core message of the article.
- robcohen 3y ago
  https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html It’s not that low, it’s higher according to many sources.
  - Manuel_D 3y ago
    "Average wage index" sounds like it's measuring mean, not median.
    - robcohen 3y ago
      I mean there’s more sources but ok.
AngryData 3y ago
And you also have to consider the amount of money they put into their tools too. Mechanics need to be holding tens of thousands of dollars in tools, they aren't given tools by their employer to use. And if they work for more than a few years in that job there are health issues that arise. My mechanic father for example needed both shoulders replaced, has nerve damage from tool vibration, and his hands are basically permenant claws that can still pull a wrench but prevent him from opening a jar or bottle of pop without a tool to help grip it.
- tomcam 3y ago
  > And you also have to consider the amount of money they put into their tools too. And training. One of the smartest people I know spent $50K to get trained as a certified Ford mechanic, then another $50K on tools. He became a general contractor because working on houses used the exact same principles but everything is way easier because it's at a far larger scale. And sorry about your dad. A lot of these guys sacrifice their knees as well.
  - badpun 3y ago
    > He became a general contractor because working on houses used the exact same principles but everything is way easier because it's at a far larger scale. There's way more lifting and carrying of heavy things when dealing with houses. Apartments without elevators are the worst, since you need to carry the heavy stuff up and down the stairs.
- solarman5000 3y ago
  Tools are a lot cheaper if you don't listen to the hype from the snap-on guy
csteubs 3y ago
I'm not sure what aspect of this conversation is "low intelligence", but automotive technician salary data doesn't often match reality where techs can (and often do) make close to double their "official" salary in side jobs. I'm a full-time engineering manager at a startup in LA, and I do repair gigs in my garage during the evenings and on weekends--all word-of-mouth referrals from former and returning customers. I've made a shade over $30k after expenses this year doing 2-3 jobs a week. Most are catalytic converter replacements that I charge a flat $500 for on $145 in parts; takes me an hour per. I've done everything from rear main seals to fuel pump replacements to in-and-out oil/filter changes. What your comment and sentiment misses, I think, is that a significant percentage of mechanics do shade-tree jobs that won't ever be accounted for in official reports. Dealers and shops have become extremely hit-and-miss, part quality fell dramatically during the pandemic (ask me how I know), and thrifty consumers are more inclined to spend money on independent mechanics that work out of a small shop; there's a ton of money not being accounted for in the process. Maybe not "cool" or "attractive" to you, but I'd love to never have to touch a keyboard again and spend my time working on cars, boats, and fabrication.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  > consumers are more inclined to spend money on independent mechanics that work out of a small shop; I’d love to have this option in the UK. Everything being over regulated the type of service is all but extinct.
  - badpun 3y ago
    These guys aren't legit. It's usually just a guy fixing cars and taking money into his pocket in exchange.
- sokka_h2otribe 3y ago
  Catalytic converter replacements? Are you talking about when they get removed or when they get genuinely replaced?
  - csteubs 3y ago

DaveExeter 3y ago

I bet if it was $100k salaries for ALL technicians there would be no shortage. Of course this would cut into profits.

missedthecue 3y ago
It would do more than "cut into profits", it would inflate repair and maintenance bills for your average person dramatically. For automobile servicing, labor costs are about 50% of the bill. Double salaries from $52k national average to $100k and everyone is now everyone is getting hit with 25% higher costs at the mechanic. That money has got to come from somewhere. And for all the owner-operated mechanic garages out there, which is probably the majority of them, their profit IS the labor bill. "cutting into profits" while raising salary are literally opposite concepts.
- rat9988 3y ago
  if it's owner operated then the owner isn't concerned by this salary discussion.
- notyofriend 3y ago
  Mechanics rates are over 100$ at even the cheapest shop. The overhead rate is over 60% which is kind of the problem. At dealers the overhead rate is probably close to 80-90%. There just isn’t enough pass through for folks doing the work
s1artibartfast 3y ago
What do your think the profit margin is for mechanic shops and most service businesses?
- mindslight 3y ago
  If we consider the 'profit margin' to include all the white collar make-work jobs that aren't performing the actual work, then pretty damn high. Last time I was at a stealership there was a whole line of people just sitting at desks pretending to be shop techs but actually just doing customer management. Never mind the entire behind-the-scenes management structure. Or you call a plumber for a simple repair and there goes one kilodollar, while the guy doing the work gets a few hundred of it. The rest is all going to the overhead of phone answerer, scheduler, manager, business entity owner, franchiser, etc. I suspect the majority of "cost disease" is going to such intermediaries, and the thing about intermediaries is they know their main job is maintaining their position.

Manuel_D 3y ago

Related economist article: https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/11/30/a-new-age-of-the-worker-will-overturn-conventional-thinking https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/11/30/a-new-age-of-th... Blue collar workers are performing pretty over recent years.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

"Using a bare-bones overlapping generations model, we examine an occupation facing obsolescence. We show that workers must be compensated to enter the occupation–receiving what we dub obsolescence rents–with fewer and older workers remaining in the occupation. We investigate the market for teamsters at the dawn of the automotive truck as an á propos parallel to truckers themselves, as self-driving trucks crest the horizon. As widespread adoption of trucks drew nearer, the number of teamsters fell, the occupation became ‘grayer’, and teamster wages rose, as predicted by the model." [1] ICE vehicles aren't going away. But as they're replaced, the willingness (and ability) to pay for repairs will go down. [1] https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31743/w31743.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31743/w317...

Dudester230602 3y ago

I guess if mechanics were not people, private equity would buy them all.

Gunax 3y ago

Employers say 'we cant find anyone and we are offering $XYZ' where $XYZ is some astronomical amount. And yet the experience of applicants is often very different. They apply and never hear back. Or they never receive offers that match. So what's the discrepancy? Either one side is lying, or there is something being miscommunicated. My guess is that often what employers mean is 'we cant find anyone with these specific skills at this price point'. You have to realize there is a finite number of people with X years experience in Y. If you want to know how many people have 10 years experience doing Y, it's upper bounded by the number of people who were employed in Y 10 years ago.

notyofriend 3y ago
Nobody wants to risk raising wages as they have to do it for everyone or risk quitting. Hiring 1 guy at 10% more might cost you the labor cost if 2 people so it’s a big risk for employers