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If the argument is about sustainable transportation, then yes: big numbers matter. Scale matters, and mass transit is the definition of scale. I genuinely don’

If the argument is about sustainable transportation, then yes: big numbers matter. Scale matters, and mass transit is the definition of scale. I genuinely don’t believe that Houston carries “about the same number of commuters” as the NYC subway. It has a quarter as many people; you should cite a source. I can’t find one for that.

cyberax 3y ago
No. Scary big numbers don't matter by themselves without a context. 1.8 billion rides per year for a 8-million city works out to less than 0.7 rides per day per capita. I can guarantee that Houston has more road trips. > Scale matters, and mass transit is the definition of scale. Yes, and multi-dozen billion dollar corruption on public projects is also the definition of scale. > I genuinely don’t believe that Houston carries “about the same number of commuters” as the NYC subway. It has a quarter as many people; you should cite a source. I can’t find one for that. I'm using the data for the Greater Houston Area (pop: 7.2 million), which matches what people think when they say "Houston".
- woodruffw 3y ago
  > 1.8 billion rides per year for a 8-million city works out to less than 0.7 rides per day per capita. I can guarantee that Houston has more road trips. That's just the subway. Add another 100 million for MNRR and LIRR, plus another 100 million for PATH and NJT. And those are all post-COVID numbers; you can roughly double each to get an actual picture for the volume of mass transit needed to run NYC. > I'm using the data for the Greater Houston Area (pop: 7.2 million), which matches what people think when they say "Houston". The NYC Combined Statistical area has 23 million people in it[1]. Nearly as many people commute into just Manhattan as live in the actual city of Houston[2]. You simply do not get those numbers with road-based transit. It doesn't matter how you cut this: Houston is operating at a fractional scale, and will continue to do so as long as roads dominate its development patterns. Houston's government appears to be aware of this[3]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area [2]: https://wagner.nyu.edu/files/rudincenter/dynamic_pop_manhattan.pdf https://wagner.nyu.edu/files/rudincenter/dynamic_pop_manhatt... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRORail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRORail

cyberax 3y ago

No. Scary big numbers don't matter by themselves without a context. 1.8 billion rides per year for a 8-million city works out to less than 0.7 rides per day per capita. I can guarantee that Houston has more road trips. > Scale matters, and mass transit is the definition of scale. Yes, and multi-dozen billion dollar corruption on public projects is also the definition of scale. > I genuinely don’t believe that Houston carries “about the same number of commuters” as the NYC subway. It has a quarter as many people; you should cite a source. I can’t find one for that. I'm using the data for the Greater Houston Area (pop: 7.2 million), which matches what people think when they say "Houston".

woodruffw 3y ago
> 1.8 billion rides per year for a 8-million city works out to less than 0.7 rides per day per capita. I can guarantee that Houston has more road trips. That's just the subway. Add another 100 million for MNRR and LIRR, plus another 100 million for PATH and NJT. And those are all post-COVID numbers; you can roughly double each to get an actual picture for the volume of mass transit needed to run NYC. > I'm using the data for the Greater Houston Area (pop: 7.2 million), which matches what people think when they say "Houston". The NYC Combined Statistical area has 23 million people in it[1]. Nearly as many people commute into just Manhattan as live in the actual city of Houston[2]. You simply do not get those numbers with road-based transit. It doesn't matter how you cut this: Houston is operating at a fractional scale, and will continue to do so as long as roads dominate its development patterns. Houston's government appears to be aware of this[3]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area [2]: https://wagner.nyu.edu/files/rudincenter/dynamic_pop_manhattan.pdf https://wagner.nyu.edu/files/rudincenter/dynamic_pop_manhatt... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRORail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRORail