5 ms·

Your comment seems to imply LGBTQIA+ is just a Twitter trend, versus people's lived experience and lifelong identity. This is as unnecessarily judgment as small

by jadbox 3y ago

Your comment seems to imply LGBTQIA+ is just a Twitter trend, versus people's lived experience and lifelong identity. This is as unnecessarily judgment as small identities claiming that straight people must self-identify cis. There is no moral superiority to deny or force label other people's identities. You're an attack helicopter? Great, roger dodger, let's go get coffee Seahawk. No one is seriously asking for litter boxes in school bathrooms or helicopter refueling stations.

mpalmer 3y ago
> No one is seriously asking for litter boxes in school bathrooms or helicopter refueling stations. This feels a bit out-of-nowhere. My read on parent comment was that "Twitter trends" are fast-changing norms about what language is (un)acceptable. They were not saying that LGBTQIA+ identity itself is a trend.
- jadbox 3y ago
  Perhaps so. In light of yesterday's Russia announcement for labeling the "international LGBT public movement" as terror extremists, I think we should be careful what we label as fads or (worse) insidious activity. Source: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/11/30/russia-bans-international-lgbt-movement-a83270 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/11/30/russia-bans-intern...
  - mpalmer 3y ago
    You seem to me to be arguing against points no one is making. You're taking the word "trend" and extrapolating it to "fad" and "insidious activity" - both of which have very different meanings and connotations to the phrase "Twitter trend". The original comment you replied to made the point that they don't want their own personal expression curtailed or modified according to someone else's opinion of acceptable speech. As someone who repudiates Russia's policies, I support and agree with their point.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
Thinking more directly about the subject in hand, what if we took their comment text as an example, and input it into a "responsible translation model"? Taking what they wrote as harshly as possible, a translation model's output might include narrative elements from the transphobic judgement you are concerned about. That would be a problem, because it would amplify transphobic narratives. Taking what they wrote as favorably as possible, a translation model's output might rephrase what was written, such that a pro-LGBTQIA+ inclusion narrative is more eloquently expressed than the author actually intended. That would be a problem, because hiding the reality of transphobic narratives would remove our ability to recognize and talk about them. To make this even more complicated, what if we are using this model for real-time dialogue? What happens when someone says something vaguely transphobic, their words get translated to an inclusive narrative, and you continue that inclusive narrative in your reply? Should the translator alter your words to be transphobic? If it doesn't, then will the entire conversation go off the rails, or will both parties continue, oblivious of each others' ideological subtleties? --- I don't believe for a second that a model could be trained to avoid toxic narrative and translate accurately. Hallucination is a feature, not a limitation. The sooner "AI" narratives can accept this reality, the better.
rutmle 3y ago
[flagged]

by jadbox 3y ago

mpalmer 3y ago

> No one is seriously asking for litter boxes in school bathrooms or helicopter refueling stations. This feels a bit out-of-nowhere. My read on parent comment was that "Twitter trends" are fast-changing norms about what language is (un)acceptable. They were not saying that LGBTQIA+ identity itself is a trend.

jadbox 3y ago
Perhaps so. In light of yesterday's Russia announcement for labeling the "international LGBT public movement" as terror extremists, I think we should be careful what we label as fads or (worse) insidious activity. Source: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/11/30/russia-bans-international-lgbt-movement-a83270 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/11/30/russia-bans-intern...
- mpalmer 3y ago
  You seem to me to be arguing against points no one is making. You're taking the word "trend" and extrapolating it to "fad" and "insidious activity" - both of which have very different meanings and connotations to the phrase "Twitter trend". The original comment you replied to made the point that they don't want their own personal expression curtailed or modified according to someone else's opinion of acceptable speech. As someone who repudiates Russia's policies, I support and agree with their point.

thomastjeffery 3y ago

Thinking more directly about the subject in hand, what if we took their comment text as an example, and input it into a "responsible translation model"? Taking what they wrote as harshly as possible, a translation model's output might include narrative elements from the transphobic judgement you are concerned about. That would be a problem, because it would amplify transphobic narratives. Taking what they wrote as favorably as possible, a translation model's output might rephrase what was written, such that a pro-LGBTQIA+ inclusion narrative is more eloquently expressed than the author actually intended. That would be a problem, because hiding the reality of transphobic narratives would remove our ability to recognize and talk about them. To make this even more complicated, what if we are using this model for real-time dialogue? What happens when someone says something vaguely transphobic, their words get translated to an inclusive narrative, and you continue that inclusive narrative in your reply? Should the translator alter your words to be transphobic? If it doesn't, then will the entire conversation go off the rails, or will both parties continue, oblivious of each others' ideological subtleties? --- I don't believe for a second that a model could be trained to avoid toxic narrative and translate accurately. Hallucination is a feature, not a limitation. The sooner "AI" narratives can accept this reality, the better.

rutmle 3y ago

[flagged]