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> Science and the advancement of technology is literally the only thing that has ever led to lasting prosperity for humans. All other periods of prosperity over

by fock 3y ago

> Science and the advancement of technology is literally the only thing that has ever led to lasting prosperity for humans. All other periods of prosperity over the last ten thousand years have been temporary and highly localized. You can lose your golden age of prosperity through a single assassination. Only science breaks the wheel. How exactly do you know this civilization will not crash too? (and take with it that highly localized habitat)

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
That was exactly my question when I read that quote too. Everything is temporary on a large enough scale and everyone w/i that golden era also thought it would last and that belief is part of why it didn't. Humans will never build anything that truly lasts for a very simple reason. The lessons learned get forgotten after 2 generations (3 at most). Stop and consider how the US fought for its freedom and how nowadays many people from the US would vote to have more limitations on speech.
- feoren 3y ago
  > The lessons learned get forgotten after 2 generations (3 at most). What are you talking about? Did we all forget the Pythagorean Theorem after 3 generations? Did we forget the force-multiplying effect of levers and pullies a few generations after Archimedes died? How can you sit here with Wikipedia at your fingertips and tell me that the collective sum of humanity remembers nothing from over 100 years ago? > everyone w/i that golden era also thought it would last and that belief is part of why it didn't Yet from almost every collapsed golden era, scientific progress from that era made its way back to collective knowledge (sometimes very slowly, admittedly). People in this modern age have this extremely simplified view of what "collapse" actually looked like.
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    I said lesson, I didn't say facts. What's the difference between data and information? data is data information is data with context The values and lessons learned to build something that truly lasts gets forgotten over time until the thing that was built gets changed into a weaker form as the people involved stop valuing the things that gave it the stronger form.
feoren 3y ago
Which civilization? The U.S.? That might slow science down, but it would not significantly reverse progress on it. Of course nations/kingdoms/empires/civilizations wax and wane, but you can't use the word "too" if you're talking about a total worldwide collapse of human civilization as a single event -- such a thing has never happened. If your point is that a Chicxulub or a worst-case Wyoming Supervolcano could outmatch the progress that science has made, then: sure, what's your point? The vast majority of established science will outlive mere nations and petty politics. There are too many copies of Wikipedia, too many printed textbooks and encyclopedias, to lose a significant portion of established science. The possibility of worldwide humanity-destroying events does not disprove this at all. In fact, if we ever faced a humanity-destroying event, then it would be nothing less than our collective scientific progress that would have any chance of seeing us through it.

by fock 3y ago

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago

That was exactly my question when I read that quote too. Everything is temporary on a large enough scale and everyone w/i that golden era also thought it would last and that belief is part of why it didn't. Humans will never build anything that truly lasts for a very simple reason. The lessons learned get forgotten after 2 generations (3 at most). Stop and consider how the US fought for its freedom and how nowadays many people from the US would vote to have more limitations on speech.

feoren 3y ago
> The lessons learned get forgotten after 2 generations (3 at most). What are you talking about? Did we all forget the Pythagorean Theorem after 3 generations? Did we forget the force-multiplying effect of levers and pullies a few generations after Archimedes died? How can you sit here with Wikipedia at your fingertips and tell me that the collective sum of humanity remembers nothing from over 100 years ago? > everyone w/i that golden era also thought it would last and that belief is part of why it didn't Yet from almost every collapsed golden era, scientific progress from that era made its way back to collective knowledge (sometimes very slowly, admittedly). People in this modern age have this extremely simplified view of what "collapse" actually looked like.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  I said lesson, I didn't say facts. What's the difference between data and information? data is data information is data with context The values and lessons learned to build something that truly lasts gets forgotten over time until the thing that was built gets changed into a weaker form as the people involved stop valuing the things that gave it the stronger form.

feoren 3y ago

Which civilization? The U.S.? That might slow science down, but it would not significantly reverse progress on it. Of course nations/kingdoms/empires/civilizations wax and wane, but you can't use the word "too" if you're talking about a total worldwide collapse of human civilization as a single event -- such a thing has never happened. If your point is that a Chicxulub or a worst-case Wyoming Supervolcano could outmatch the progress that science has made, then: sure, what's your point? The vast majority of established science will outlive mere nations and petty politics. There are too many copies of Wikipedia, too many printed textbooks and encyclopedias, to lose a significant portion of established science. The possibility of worldwide humanity-destroying events does not disprove this at all. In fact, if we ever faced a humanity-destroying event, then it would be nothing less than our collective scientific progress that would have any chance of seeing us through it.