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> Yet pay is the point of work, wouldn't you say? If that's what I thought about work, I would be quite depressed. Fortunately, I find meaning in my work that

> Yet pay is the point of work, wouldn't you say? If that's what I thought about work, I would be quite depressed. Fortunately, I find meaning in my work that has nothing to do with pay. Of course, if I didn't get paid, it would be a problem -- but pay is very much not the point. (Especially because my needs are met.)

s1artibartfast 3y ago
I think you are in the minority there. I don't know anyone that would go to their job if not for the pay.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  That sort of supports the notion that people tend to be unhappy in their jobs, doesn't it? If the only reason to go to a job is to get paid, that's a strong indicator that the job sucks.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I think it basically synonymous the notion that people are unhappy with their jobs. However, I don't think it says anything definitive about if the job sucks or not- There are far too many other factors. It says a lot more about life choices , priorities, and compromise. Don't get me wrong, some jobs suck, but a lot of people also work great jobs they personally hate. For example, some people hate programing, corporate environments, and living in the bay area but do it for the $$$. That doesnt mean the job sucks, just that they have traded money for work they don't like. No amounts of employee perks is going to turn a programing job into being an artist, or whatever, if that is what someone actually enjoys.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      > I don't think it says anything definitive about if the job sucks or not Well, yes. I don't think there are many jobs that objectively suck. For almost all jobs, there are people who will be miserable doing them and there are other people who live for it. I should have said the "job sucks for them".
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        Yep, and I think overall, there are a lot of unhappy people who optimized for the wrong thing with misplaced blame.
- Modified3019 3y ago
  If I had the same income no matter even if I slept all day, I’d gladly do what I currently do (agronomist), but only for 8-16 hours a week. I could and would happily fill the rest of the week with a fire hose of my other obsessions.
- boplicity 3y ago
  I think you misunderstand me -- if I wasn't getting paid, of course I would find another job. That's just reality. I'm not independently wealthy; I need to earn a living. Outside of that, I find my work to be meaningful in and of itself. I wonder if many of the ills in our society are related to this: Many people don't see any dignity or meaning in their work. Maybe they're right. Maybe not. Either way, that's a big problem.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    To the contrary, I think we understand each other clearly. >I wonder if many of the ills in our society are related to this: Many people don't see any dignity or meaning in their work. Maybe they're right. Maybe not. Either way, that's a big problem. I tend to think it is a central problem too. I think a big part of it is driven by individual overoptimization around the wrong the wrong parameters and a culture of commodification. The general sense I get is that most people spend their life doing meaningless work that makes them unhappy in hopes that they buy enough crap to net happiness. Im guilty of it too, but the older I get, the more confident I am that this simply doesnt work. You can't buy enough crap to break even. Moreover, I'm pretty suspicious of hedonism and the pursuit of happiness in general. I dont think happiness can be sought directly, but is only a byproduct of living with other objectives.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I think you are in the minority there. I don't know anyone that would go to their job if not for the pay.

JohnFen 3y ago
That sort of supports the notion that people tend to be unhappy in their jobs, doesn't it? If the only reason to go to a job is to get paid, that's a strong indicator that the job sucks.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I think it basically synonymous the notion that people are unhappy with their jobs. However, I don't think it says anything definitive about if the job sucks or not- There are far too many other factors. It says a lot more about life choices , priorities, and compromise. Don't get me wrong, some jobs suck, but a lot of people also work great jobs they personally hate. For example, some people hate programing, corporate environments, and living in the bay area but do it for the $$$. That doesnt mean the job sucks, just that they have traded money for work they don't like. No amounts of employee perks is going to turn a programing job into being an artist, or whatever, if that is what someone actually enjoys.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > I don't think it says anything definitive about if the job sucks or not Well, yes. I don't think there are many jobs that objectively suck. For almost all jobs, there are people who will be miserable doing them and there are other people who live for it. I should have said the "job sucks for them".
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      Yep, and I think overall, there are a lot of unhappy people who optimized for the wrong thing with misplaced blame.
Modified3019 3y ago
If I had the same income no matter even if I slept all day, I’d gladly do what I currently do (agronomist), but only for 8-16 hours a week. I could and would happily fill the rest of the week with a fire hose of my other obsessions.
boplicity 3y ago
I think you misunderstand me -- if I wasn't getting paid, of course I would find another job. That's just reality. I'm not independently wealthy; I need to earn a living. Outside of that, I find my work to be meaningful in and of itself. I wonder if many of the ills in our society are related to this: Many people don't see any dignity or meaning in their work. Maybe they're right. Maybe not. Either way, that's a big problem.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  To the contrary, I think we understand each other clearly. >I wonder if many of the ills in our society are related to this: Many people don't see any dignity or meaning in their work. Maybe they're right. Maybe not. Either way, that's a big problem. I tend to think it is a central problem too. I think a big part of it is driven by individual overoptimization around the wrong the wrong parameters and a culture of commodification. The general sense I get is that most people spend their life doing meaningless work that makes them unhappy in hopes that they buy enough crap to net happiness. Im guilty of it too, but the older I get, the more confident I am that this simply doesnt work. You can't buy enough crap to break even. Moreover, I'm pretty suspicious of hedonism and the pursuit of happiness in general. I dont think happiness can be sought directly, but is only a byproduct of living with other objectives.