4 ms·

It just looks bad. You want to be MacOS? Actually go and copy it, as close to pixel perfect as you fancy. I've personally experimented with replicating UIs usi

It just looks bad. You want to be MacOS? Actually go and copy it, as close to pixel perfect as you fancy. I've personally experimented with replicating UIs using just a "device" object to a graphical API, so I know very well that it is possible. What prevents this project from just... going out and actually doing what they're trying to achieve? Take high resolution screenshots, carefully understand what's going on, and re-implement it. The hardest part would probably be compositing (if they do it from scratch), but even before getting there, there's so much wrong already. This really does not have the same finesse of MacOS, has anybody even looked at the screenshots picked by the developers??

tiltowait 3y ago
This screenshot[1] is a great example of what you're talking about. * Awful typography (especially bold text) * Ugly gray background in foreground window * Windows 95-era buttons in the foreground window * Weird left padding in the (ugly) dock * Terminal window has window controls on the right for some reason, and they look like they're from Windows? All that said, it's still in preview (v0.4pre4), and these things can all be corrected. But I think they'd do well to slap "early preview" all over the place so people don't write it off. [1] https://ravynos.com/images/ravyn_0.4.0_pre_desktop.png https://ravynos.com/images/ravyn_0.4.0_pre_desktop.png
- cristeigabriel 3y ago
  I think there is a critical error in the judgement you make here, we can see that they advertise[0] the finesse of macOS. But what does this really mean? Let's think about it. But before that, they clearly must be aware that... it's just bad (lightly put), yet it comes off very clearly that they're trying to copy[1] visual elements of Mac. So what does the author think finesse mean? For my perspective, I'll quote the first definition I get on a Google search, "impressive delicacy and skill." We can argue that Mac does provide this (I believe it does, the experience is very opinionated (which also leads to stuff being intentional) and seamless across their devices, consistent (more than just the potential for consistency, which is what Windows provides), and so on, and so forth. But, this is nothing like what we see in the current RavynOS. Nothing feels intentional. The advertising is misleading, and I don't think that it's something solvable in the future unless the person responsible for advertising and guaranteeing the presence of this "finesse" update their understanding of the word and clearly defines what that should mean in practice. Update1: to add to my previous points, if my perception of the word "finesse" is correct, for something to have the "finesse of macOS," it wouldn't even have to look like it, but just achieve the same goal in it's own way (or Apple's way, that's "fine" but leaves a bad taste.) [0] - https://ravynos.com/ https://ravynos.com/ "Finesse of macOS. [...]" [1] - https://ravynos.com/screenshots https://ravynos.com/screenshots
- OnlyMortal 3y ago
  The buttons look like NeXTStep IMO.
- frankhhhhhhhhh 3y ago
  This desktop is just screaming for some drop shadows.
layer8 3y ago
A pixel-perfect copy would raise copyright issues.
- cristeigabriel 3y ago
  Sure, but I don't think that is the issue here.
  - layer8 3y ago
    I’m not defending their current approach, it looks pretty bad, but the approach you suggest also isn’t viable.
    - cristeigabriel 3y ago
      Whilst I agree, it was just a development on what I perceive to be their vision. I address this particular point in another comment in this comment thread.
  - donatj 3y ago
    I mean your complaint was literally that they didn't copy it pixel by pixel. That's your issue here, as stated at the very least.
SkyMarshal 3y ago
> Actually go and copy it, as close to pixel perfect as you fancy. That’s what they appear to be doing, but they’re only about halfway there so far. It’s still just in beta, not even version 0.4 yet.
LeFantome 3y ago
At the pace they are going, they are years from a usable system. The screenshots you are looking at are from an abandoned approach to doing the GUI tech. The level of polish that you are advocating seems completely premature to the current level of development. This is not just a visual design shell. They are proposing a macOS mimic much more deeply at the OS level.
- cristeigabriel 3y ago
  To advertise "finesse of macOS", you should deliver on that
  - viraptor 3y ago
    You advertise what you're aiming for, not what you've just achieved. Do you really want some alpha level software with description "an app that draws some windows and sometimes doesn't crash", or do you want to know what the author has in mind for when it's finished?
    - Assassink786 3y ago
      It is easy to say that thing but hard to work on Try creating something similar
giancarlostoro 3y ago
I would rather they just use KDE and make a nice skin that has a similar scheme to Apples. KDE looks sleek on its own, and then make keybindings as close to Apples as possible. Heck, KDE3 used to have a wizard that asked if you were more accustomed to Mac, Windows or Linux, and set your key bindings that way. You can get insanely close with KDE, and KDE apps all follow a standard UI approach and the theming will transfer over. I'm pretty much convinced that the best DE is KDE for something full feature. If I had an OS with only the apps made for their respective Desktop Environments, KDE would be the winner for me, everything from games to code editors, browser(s?), and what have you.
- FullyFunctional 3y ago
  The main thing I miss whenever I try yet-another mac-like skin is keybindings that actually work. I have decadeS of muscle memory, so when keyboard binding are different, I instantly bail. Now I understand why that's hard (this is all implemented individually by each app), but it's a non-starter without this.
  - giancarlostoro 3y ago
    It depends on how the app implements some event handlers, but yes you're correct, not all apps might honor the keybinding configuration. I think all KDE apps do.
  - actuallyalys 3y ago
    Konto goes a long way in my experience: https://kinto.sh/ https://kinto.sh/
    - FullyFunctional 3y ago
      Alas, it doesn't currently work with Wayland (it's in one of the 294 issues).
pjmlp 3y ago
Not to mention that has zero relation wit macOS developer experience, those developers that actually target Apple platforms, instead of using it as fancy UNIX.

tiltowait 3y ago

This screenshot[1] is a great example of what you're talking about. * Awful typography (especially bold text) * Ugly gray background in foreground window * Windows 95-era buttons in the foreground window * Weird left padding in the (ugly) dock * Terminal window has window controls on the right for some reason, and they look like they're from Windows? All that said, it's still in preview (v0.4pre4), and these things can all be corrected. But I think they'd do well to slap "early preview" all over the place so people don't write it off. [1] https://ravynos.com/images/ravyn_0.4.0_pre_desktop.png https://ravynos.com/images/ravyn_0.4.0_pre_desktop.png

cristeigabriel 3y ago
I think there is a critical error in the judgement you make here, we can see that they advertise[0] the finesse of macOS. But what does this really mean? Let's think about it. But before that, they clearly must be aware that... it's just bad (lightly put), yet it comes off very clearly that they're trying to copy[1] visual elements of Mac. So what does the author think finesse mean? For my perspective, I'll quote the first definition I get on a Google search, "impressive delicacy and skill." We can argue that Mac does provide this (I believe it does, the experience is very opinionated (which also leads to stuff being intentional) and seamless across their devices, consistent (more than just the potential for consistency, which is what Windows provides), and so on, and so forth. But, this is nothing like what we see in the current RavynOS. Nothing feels intentional. The advertising is misleading, and I don't think that it's something solvable in the future unless the person responsible for advertising and guaranteeing the presence of this "finesse" update their understanding of the word and clearly defines what that should mean in practice. Update1: to add to my previous points, if my perception of the word "finesse" is correct, for something to have the "finesse of macOS," it wouldn't even have to look like it, but just achieve the same goal in it's own way (or Apple's way, that's "fine" but leaves a bad taste.) [0] - https://ravynos.com/ https://ravynos.com/ "Finesse of macOS. [...]" [1] - https://ravynos.com/screenshots https://ravynos.com/screenshots
OnlyMortal 3y ago
The buttons look like NeXTStep IMO.
frankhhhhhhhhh 3y ago
This desktop is just screaming for some drop shadows.

layer8 3y ago

A pixel-perfect copy would raise copyright issues.

cristeigabriel 3y ago
Sure, but I don't think that is the issue here.
- layer8 3y ago
  I’m not defending their current approach, it looks pretty bad, but the approach you suggest also isn’t viable.
  - cristeigabriel 3y ago
    Whilst I agree, it was just a development on what I perceive to be their vision. I address this particular point in another comment in this comment thread.
- donatj 3y ago
  I mean your complaint was literally that they didn't copy it pixel by pixel. That's your issue here, as stated at the very least.

SkyMarshal 3y ago

> Actually go and copy it, as close to pixel perfect as you fancy. That’s what they appear to be doing, but they’re only about halfway there so far. It’s still just in beta, not even version 0.4 yet.

LeFantome 3y ago

At the pace they are going, they are years from a usable system. The screenshots you are looking at are from an abandoned approach to doing the GUI tech. The level of polish that you are advocating seems completely premature to the current level of development. This is not just a visual design shell. They are proposing a macOS mimic much more deeply at the OS level.

cristeigabriel 3y ago
To advertise "finesse of macOS", you should deliver on that
- viraptor 3y ago
  You advertise what you're aiming for, not what you've just achieved. Do you really want some alpha level software with description "an app that draws some windows and sometimes doesn't crash", or do you want to know what the author has in mind for when it's finished?
  - Assassink786 3y ago
    It is easy to say that thing but hard to work on Try creating something similar

giancarlostoro 3y ago

I would rather they just use KDE and make a nice skin that has a similar scheme to Apples. KDE looks sleek on its own, and then make keybindings as close to Apples as possible. Heck, KDE3 used to have a wizard that asked if you were more accustomed to Mac, Windows or Linux, and set your key bindings that way. You can get insanely close with KDE, and KDE apps all follow a standard UI approach and the theming will transfer over. I'm pretty much convinced that the best DE is KDE for something full feature. If I had an OS with only the apps made for their respective Desktop Environments, KDE would be the winner for me, everything from games to code editors, browser(s?), and what have you.

FullyFunctional 3y ago
The main thing I miss whenever I try yet-another mac-like skin is keybindings that actually work. I have decadeS of muscle memory, so when keyboard binding are different, I instantly bail. Now I understand why that's hard (this is all implemented individually by each app), but it's a non-starter without this.
- giancarlostoro 3y ago
  It depends on how the app implements some event handlers, but yes you're correct, not all apps might honor the keybinding configuration. I think all KDE apps do.
- actuallyalys 3y ago
  Konto goes a long way in my experience: https://kinto.sh/ https://kinto.sh/
  - FullyFunctional 3y ago
    Alas, it doesn't currently work with Wayland (it's in one of the 294 issues).

pjmlp 3y ago

Not to mention that has zero relation wit macOS developer experience, those developers that actually target Apple platforms, instead of using it as fancy UNIX.