4 ms·

If that's a "well-known fact" then could I trouble you for some sources to that end?

johnfn 3y ago
Just talk to a few? I know plenty of junior developers who've told me that their professional life suffered during remote work over covid.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  I know plenty who said the reverse. Uh oh!
  - johnfn 3y ago
    Why is it surprising that different people could have different reactions to WFH? Some people liked it. Other people hated it.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      The original claim that’s being supported is: > the well-known fact that junior employees and productivity both take a hit with full-time remote work Not “some people were less productive, others were more productive,” which is obviously the actual truth.
- llogiq 3y ago
  So professional work during a worldwide pandemic with all the hardship that entailed suffered...from working remotely? I don't buy that.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  you mean the pandemic that completely upended the entire global economy and society? the one that made entire industries basically vanish? the one that no one was prepared for? like, I been 100% remote since 2015 for orgs that were already equipped for that, and life went on just fine when COVID hit. Jr. Devs at orgs that weren't equipped for remote definitely suffered, in the same way that not having winter tiers or chains would screw you when a sudden blizzard hits Texas.
  - johnfn 3y ago
    > in the same way that not having winter tiers or chains would screw you when a sudden blizzard hits Texas. Doesn't this just prove the point, though? You seem to be saying it takes additional resources and time to make WFH work as effectively as normal, in-office work. Many workplaces are resource-constrained and may not be able to implement those practices.
    - EA-3167 3y ago
      How do those resources compare to the cost of maintaining offices, the costs to workers of commutes and being more or less forced into expensive and crowded urban centers, and the environmental cost of the commute and the property maintenance?
Kiro 3y ago
Let's be real. The reason we all love WFH is because we can slack off. It's so easy to game the system and make it look like we're working when we're not.
- SantalBlush 3y ago
  The three big reasons for me are: 1. No more commute. 2. No need to move for a new job. 3. Way more real estate options. No longer needing to live inside a major metropolitan area near my job means I can save hundreds of thousands on a house, or pay much cheaper rent. It's a no-brainer.
- taylodl 3y ago
  Stop projecting your personal failings onto the rest of us. My productivity has never been greater - and I started this career journey in the 80's. Add in the new AI tools and productivity is getting another bump. I guess you're just getting left behind. We won't miss you.
- ksenzee 3y ago
  If you’re justifying this to yourself because you think everyone else is slacking off at home, you might want to rethink. I am not slacking off—my productivity is at least as good at home as it was in the office, even on days when I’m not at the computer a full eight hours. Judging from what we get done, other people on my team are also not slacking off. But if someone were regularly slacking off, I’d be able to tell—and I’m not even a manager, just a principal who listens at standup. At least wait for a better job market if you insist on playing roulette with your career.
- ubercow13 3y ago
  I don't think it's any easier, it's just less unpleasant because you don't have to pretend to be working as actively while slacking off. And if this is true it just proof of the merits of WFH. If everyone is 'slacking off' and productivity is basically unchanged, it just shows what a waste of everyone's lives working in the office was.
- zarathustreal 3y ago
  Sorry to have to be the one to throw ice water on you here: most of your colleagues are in fact working hard and enjoy WFH because they enjoy spending time with their family and working from a comfortable work environment. If we want to talk about conspiracies, let’s talk about management’s belief that everyone producing value is secretly trying to game the system

Just talk to a few? I know plenty of junior developers who've told me that their professional life suffered during remote work over covid.

ethanbond 3y ago
I know plenty who said the reverse. Uh oh!
- johnfn 3y ago
  Why is it surprising that different people could have different reactions to WFH? Some people liked it. Other people hated it.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    The original claim that’s being supported is: > the well-known fact that junior employees and productivity both take a hit with full-time remote work Not “some people were less productive, others were more productive,” which is obviously the actual truth.
llogiq 3y ago
So professional work during a worldwide pandemic with all the hardship that entailed suffered...from working remotely? I don't buy that.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
you mean the pandemic that completely upended the entire global economy and society? the one that made entire industries basically vanish? the one that no one was prepared for? like, I been 100% remote since 2015 for orgs that were already equipped for that, and life went on just fine when COVID hit. Jr. Devs at orgs that weren't equipped for remote definitely suffered, in the same way that not having winter tiers or chains would screw you when a sudden blizzard hits Texas.
- johnfn 3y ago
  > in the same way that not having winter tiers or chains would screw you when a sudden blizzard hits Texas. Doesn't this just prove the point, though? You seem to be saying it takes additional resources and time to make WFH work as effectively as normal, in-office work. Many workplaces are resource-constrained and may not be able to implement those practices.
  - EA-3167 3y ago
    How do those resources compare to the cost of maintaining offices, the costs to workers of commutes and being more or less forced into expensive and crowded urban centers, and the environmental cost of the commute and the property maintenance?

Kiro 3y ago

Let's be real. The reason we all love WFH is because we can slack off. It's so easy to game the system and make it look like we're working when we're not.

SantalBlush 3y ago
The three big reasons for me are: 1. No more commute. 2. No need to move for a new job. 3. Way more real estate options. No longer needing to live inside a major metropolitan area near my job means I can save hundreds of thousands on a house, or pay much cheaper rent. It's a no-brainer.
taylodl 3y ago
Stop projecting your personal failings onto the rest of us. My productivity has never been greater - and I started this career journey in the 80's. Add in the new AI tools and productivity is getting another bump. I guess you're just getting left behind. We won't miss you.
ksenzee 3y ago
If you’re justifying this to yourself because you think everyone else is slacking off at home, you might want to rethink. I am not slacking off—my productivity is at least as good at home as it was in the office, even on days when I’m not at the computer a full eight hours. Judging from what we get done, other people on my team are also not slacking off. But if someone were regularly slacking off, I’d be able to tell—and I’m not even a manager, just a principal who listens at standup. At least wait for a better job market if you insist on playing roulette with your career.
ubercow13 3y ago
I don't think it's any easier, it's just less unpleasant because you don't have to pretend to be working as actively while slacking off. And if this is true it just proof of the merits of WFH. If everyone is 'slacking off' and productivity is basically unchanged, it just shows what a waste of everyone's lives working in the office was.
zarathustreal 3y ago
Sorry to have to be the one to throw ice water on you here: most of your colleagues are in fact working hard and enjoy WFH because they enjoy spending time with their family and working from a comfortable work environment. If we want to talk about conspiracies, let’s talk about management’s belief that everyone producing value is secretly trying to game the system