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Meh macOS is more than shiny traffic lights buttons on your windows, global menus, and dock. It's also a clipboard that works everywhere and not like "oh you

Meh macOS is more than shiny traffic lights buttons on your windows, global menus, and dock. It's also a clipboard that works everywhere and not like "oh you cannot do this because X11 this or wayland that", it's also human interface guidelines (the old ones, the new ones are unparseable shit) that make bloody sure that the OK/Cancel buttons appear where you expect them to appear. It's also some bloody keyboard shortcuts that work everywhere the same and not every bloody app bringing in their own and their own little ways to configure them or none at all. Yeah chrome, I'm looking at you. It's also that the most used system stuff can be configured pointy-clicky and that stuff that the system can figure out on its own is what it bloody figures out on its own, without me having to drop down to command line (although it is an avenue too, and command line and GUI must be in sync). It's also that it's accessible out of the box. Try blindfolding yourself, inserting your installer usb stick, and installing your thing and using it successfully. Come on. OS X could do it since Leopard, I think, which was in... 2007? In other words, macOS could abandon their Aqua looks and go for industrial NeXTStep looks, and still be ahead of almost everything else in terms of consistency, accessibility, and general lack of fuckness.

hospitalJail 3y ago
> Try blindfolding yourself, inserting your installer usb stick, and installing your thing and using it successfully. I don't understand this. Are you saying its hard to install Linux? Has this ever been true? Usually you smash the Next button. There is a partioning screen, but that is some serious changes you are going to make. I don't care what OS religion you follow, I'm taking the blindfold off during partioning.
- BSVogler 3y ago
  Yes. You need to be very technical. E.g. there is a keyboard selection thing with multiple ambiguous options while on Mac you have to press like one key to identify it. Even windows somehow works without requiring a PhD in keyboard layouts.
  - alpaca128 3y ago
    On modern distros the installer will already have the right one selected if your keyboard layout matches the system language (which is true for 99% of computer users). I'm pretty sure Fedora doesn't show you the list of layouts unless you want to manually change it.
    - NikkiA 3y ago
      > (which is true for 99% of computer users) If you mean 99% of US computer users, maybe.
- WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
  But this also means you're fucked if you're blind and taking blindfold off doesn't make any difference. This is not about religion, man. This is about accessibility.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- n9 3y ago
  they are saying that you can literally install the OS start to finish it (and configure it for sightless use to boot) without being able to see at all. As in blind. This was part of the point they were making about accesibility features and UI consistency in MacOS.
hedora 3y ago
You are describing MacOS 9. The ribbon had all the settings for the OS, and was always a click away. Finder worked out of the box. These days, copy-paste is hit or miss, and the window manager can’t be reliably controlled via the keyboard. Also, even in first party apps, keyboard shortcuts are completely inconsistent. Command-0 no longer reliably restores the main window. In maps, Command-L doesn’t focus the location bar like it does in safari; it repositions the map to your GPS location. Even the keyboard is a shitshow. Notes aggressively autocorrects technical terms to random words on the latest MacOS, but nothing else does, and I can’t find the second “turn off autocorrect” setting that it must be using instead of the OS-wide one (which is definitely disabled). Current OS X’s UI and filesystem layout are a cruel parodies of OS 9. It’s like a bunch of Shoggoths or an army of slightly better LLMs tried to recreate OS 9, borg-style. Apple mostly adds software features by acquiring stuff, storyboarding UIs, demoing a prototype to an exec, and then shipping it, so I guess that’s how it got so weird. Anyway, I wouldn’t say the result has finesse.
- WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
  Now imagine that the thing in the OP has even less finesse than what you call a bunch of Shoggoths. More like putting lipstick on a earthworm. All those projects, hellosystem, this one, I guess I've seen one or two more before — all of them are just kind of missing the whole point. I would say the current KDE Plasma is somewhat starting to approach any amount of finesse at all. Hope they continue, at least they've learned from the whole KDE4 kerfuffle.
- n9 3y ago
  sure, there are inconsistencies, but with some global shortcuts in your muscle memory and a few years of using spotlight under your belt... OSX out of the box is fast and efficient as hell. But I will relent and acknowledge that your arguments ring very true. How do I get my Messages window back if I accentally close it? Very good point. The ribbon though? I think your memory is optimistic. It was in my memory ugly, clunky, slow and had some, but few system settings. But I must admit that in my heart OS 7.1 was the high water mark of usability and I resented all subsequent innovations... which it sounds like you might be able to empathize with.

hospitalJail 3y ago

> Try blindfolding yourself, inserting your installer usb stick, and installing your thing and using it successfully. I don't understand this. Are you saying its hard to install Linux? Has this ever been true? Usually you smash the Next button. There is a partioning screen, but that is some serious changes you are going to make. I don't care what OS religion you follow, I'm taking the blindfold off during partioning.

BSVogler 3y ago
Yes. You need to be very technical. E.g. there is a keyboard selection thing with multiple ambiguous options while on Mac you have to press like one key to identify it. Even windows somehow works without requiring a PhD in keyboard layouts.
- alpaca128 3y ago
  On modern distros the installer will already have the right one selected if your keyboard layout matches the system language (which is true for 99% of computer users). I'm pretty sure Fedora doesn't show you the list of layouts unless you want to manually change it.
  - NikkiA 3y ago
    > (which is true for 99% of computer users) If you mean 99% of US computer users, maybe.
WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
But this also means you're fucked if you're blind and taking blindfold off doesn't make any difference. This is not about religion, man. This is about accessibility.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
n9 3y ago
they are saying that you can literally install the OS start to finish it (and configure it for sightless use to boot) without being able to see at all. As in blind. This was part of the point they were making about accesibility features and UI consistency in MacOS.

hedora 3y ago

You are describing MacOS 9. The ribbon had all the settings for the OS, and was always a click away. Finder worked out of the box. These days, copy-paste is hit or miss, and the window manager can’t be reliably controlled via the keyboard. Also, even in first party apps, keyboard shortcuts are completely inconsistent. Command-0 no longer reliably restores the main window. In maps, Command-L doesn’t focus the location bar like it does in safari; it repositions the map to your GPS location. Even the keyboard is a shitshow. Notes aggressively autocorrects technical terms to random words on the latest MacOS, but nothing else does, and I can’t find the second “turn off autocorrect” setting that it must be using instead of the OS-wide one (which is definitely disabled). Current OS X’s UI and filesystem layout are a cruel parodies of OS 9. It’s like a bunch of Shoggoths or an army of slightly better LLMs tried to recreate OS 9, borg-style. Apple mostly adds software features by acquiring stuff, storyboarding UIs, demoing a prototype to an exec, and then shipping it, so I guess that’s how it got so weird. Anyway, I wouldn’t say the result has finesse.

WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
Now imagine that the thing in the OP has even less finesse than what you call a bunch of Shoggoths. More like putting lipstick on a earthworm. All those projects, hellosystem, this one, I guess I've seen one or two more before — all of them are just kind of missing the whole point. I would say the current KDE Plasma is somewhat starting to approach any amount of finesse at all. Hope they continue, at least they've learned from the whole KDE4 kerfuffle.
n9 3y ago
sure, there are inconsistencies, but with some global shortcuts in your muscle memory and a few years of using spotlight under your belt... OSX out of the box is fast and efficient as hell. But I will relent and acknowledge that your arguments ring very true. How do I get my Messages window back if I accentally close it? Very good point. The ribbon though? I think your memory is optimistic. It was in my memory ugly, clunky, slow and had some, but few system settings. But I must admit that in my heart OS 7.1 was the high water mark of usability and I resented all subsequent innovations... which it sounds like you might be able to empathize with.