4 ms·

> European transit-oriented model. In what universe has it failed? Certainly not this one.

by Krutonium 3y ago

cyberax 3y ago
Have you looked at the average commute times for the US and European cities? Go and do that.
- debesyla 3y ago
  Commute vs driving?
  - cyberax 3y ago
    Commutes, all modes average.
    - lozenge 3y ago
      Is this just work commuting or other things as well? I can pick up some groceries on my way home, in the US even this activity adds more mileage to your car.
      - cyberax 3y ago
        Sure. It's even worse for that. Cars save even more time for errands, because transit is typically optimized for hub-to-spokes transportation to downtowns. > even this activity adds more mileage to your car. Why should you care about that?
    - piva00 3y ago
      What about all the other trips a family/individual makes that isn't work-commute related? Things like: going grocery shopping, going to sports/hobbies activities, entertainment, going out to restaurants and bars, meeting friends at parks, etc.
      - cyberax 3y ago
        I tried to do that, but there is no reliable statistical data for these kinds of errands. So I did something else: dropped random points inside the cities and plotted routes between them using biking, transit, or cars. In every city I tested (even Berlin!), cars win. And often by 3-5 _times_. It's understandable, transit is optimized towards traveling to a small number of destinations (typically Downtowns) and lateral travel is often hard.
        piva00 3y ago
        In Berlin I highly doubt it's 3-5 times for the majority of trips. To try it out I just plotted a simple route from Schöneberg to Mauerpark, it takes ~42 min with transit, ~28 min with a car. With a car you need to find parking (and pay for parking). The same route is ~32 min on a bike. From Charlottenburg to Lichtenberg (cross city) it's around ~42 min on a car, ~1h10m with transit + walk, or ~1h on a bike. Again, without factoring in times for parking, etc. Those car trips are estimates with no traffic on a Saturday noon, any other time with more traffic and these estimates should get ~20-30% longer.
- mariusor 3y ago
  Please don't evade the question. If you use some data for your assertion, please show it to us.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

> European transit-oriented model. In what universe has it failed? Certainly not this one.

cyberax 3y ago

Have you looked at the average commute times for the US and European cities? Go and do that.

debesyla 3y ago
Commute vs driving?
- cyberax 3y ago
  Commutes, all modes average.
  - lozenge 3y ago
    Is this just work commuting or other things as well? I can pick up some groceries on my way home, in the US even this activity adds more mileage to your car.
    - cyberax 3y ago
      Sure. It's even worse for that. Cars save even more time for errands, because transit is typically optimized for hub-to-spokes transportation to downtowns. > even this activity adds more mileage to your car. Why should you care about that?
  - piva00 3y ago
    What about all the other trips a family/individual makes that isn't work-commute related? Things like: going grocery shopping, going to sports/hobbies activities, entertainment, going out to restaurants and bars, meeting friends at parks, etc.
    - cyberax 3y ago
      I tried to do that, but there is no reliable statistical data for these kinds of errands. So I did something else: dropped random points inside the cities and plotted routes between them using biking, transit, or cars. In every city I tested (even Berlin!), cars win. And often by 3-5 _times_. It's understandable, transit is optimized towards traveling to a small number of destinations (typically Downtowns) and lateral travel is often hard.
      - piva00 3y ago
        In Berlin I highly doubt it's 3-5 times for the majority of trips. To try it out I just plotted a simple route from Schöneberg to Mauerpark, it takes ~42 min with transit, ~28 min with a car. With a car you need to find parking (and pay for parking). The same route is ~32 min on a bike. From Charlottenburg to Lichtenberg (cross city) it's around ~42 min on a car, ~1h10m with transit + walk, or ~1h on a bike. Again, without factoring in times for parking, etc. Those car trips are estimates with no traffic on a Saturday noon, any other time with more traffic and these estimates should get ~20-30% longer.
mariusor 3y ago
Please don't evade the question. If you use some data for your assertion, please show it to us.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]