4 ms·

I think the corollary to the title (to turn it around on the author) is not 'Code is read more than written' but 'code that can't be read won't run for long'. D

I think the corollary to the title (to turn it around on the author) is not 'Code is read more than written' but 'code that can't be read won't run for long'. Disclaimer: Experienced sysadmin trying to make a lateral move to development and as such a complete noob.

rafaelmn 3y ago
> code that can't be read won't run for long There's plenty of ossified code people are scared to touch because they don't understand it, but stake their business on it :)
- thfuran 3y ago
  And even executables for which the source code has been lost but which are still important to business operations.
- Lutger 3y ago
  Or just code that works and nobody wants or needs to spend money on changing. I've written such code, very crappy stuff. And then coming back to the client many, many years later, finding it all just humming along, driving their business critical applications without it or the computer it runs on ever having been updated once in 5 years or so. I was so surprised, and a bit scared. Sometimes when you don't change anything, it just keeps working. So I guess that makes it a very boring: code that can't be read won't be changed and will not be relevant for long, but not always
- couchand 3y ago
  One of my clients is convinced that a short hunk of JavaScript code that nobody can clearly describe the behavior of is their most valuable asset. Non-coders are weird.
- LtWorf 3y ago
  I (very briefly) worked in a startup whose business was search (on a certain domain) and they had no tests for their "Search.java" file (the real name was 300x longer, because java devs…). I had found some operations to tweak the scoring, except that some were multiplications by one, so I removed them. But I got told to not touch them because they wouldn't know if I had broken it until some customer complained. The CTO told me off for my completely irresponsible behaviour.
TeMPOraL 3y ago
Proprietary software you don't have sources for (say e.g. a third-party library), or just about any black-box system, are counterexamples to your corollary.
- rob74 3y ago
  Yeah, some code runs for so long that the system's owners have issues with repairing/replacing the hardware it can only run on if it fails (and then sometimes resort to emulation of the old hardware to be able to keep running it).
- nehal3m 3y ago
  Well sort of, I can't read the binaries but I expect the vendor to have source and maintain it properly right?
  - layer8 3y ago
    There's a lot of software that only exists in binary and whose vendors/maintainers are long gone, and that is used for decades because it just does its job.
    - nehal3m 3y ago
      You’re right, the sibling to the comment I responded to mentioned this as well and it gave me flashbacks to emulating an Amiga system to get a multi million dollar industrial system up and running.
  - LtWorf 3y ago
    I've had a coworker commit a binary on git and keep the source on his machine. I'm sure it has happened more than once.
raziel2p 3y ago
That would be nice if it were true :(
benreesman 3y ago
Welcome to this side of the shop, I hope we can all make you feel welcome. :) Bad news: too few experienced ops people became one less!
ric2b 3y ago
The entire financial industry disagrees. Also can I interest you in coming out of retirement to explain your cobol code to other developers?
- pards 3y ago
  Or to help us understand that mission-critical MS Excel 5.0 spreadsheet? We need to retire that Windows 95 machine under John's desk.
TheCleric 3y ago
I think it can be run for as long as you have the right infrastructure. I'd say it's more 'code that can't be read won't be modifiable for long'.
ezekiel68 3y ago
Your point isn't a bad one, but it's really a separate topic. Assuming we aren't deailing with deliberate obfuscation, most code can be read by people who can be bothered to try, and there are always code formatters if necessary.

rafaelmn 3y ago

> code that can't be read won't run for long There's plenty of ossified code people are scared to touch because they don't understand it, but stake their business on it :)

thfuran 3y ago
And even executables for which the source code has been lost but which are still important to business operations.
Lutger 3y ago
Or just code that works and nobody wants or needs to spend money on changing. I've written such code, very crappy stuff. And then coming back to the client many, many years later, finding it all just humming along, driving their business critical applications without it or the computer it runs on ever having been updated once in 5 years or so. I was so surprised, and a bit scared. Sometimes when you don't change anything, it just keeps working. So I guess that makes it a very boring: code that can't be read won't be changed and will not be relevant for long, but not always
couchand 3y ago
One of my clients is convinced that a short hunk of JavaScript code that nobody can clearly describe the behavior of is their most valuable asset. Non-coders are weird.
LtWorf 3y ago
I (very briefly) worked in a startup whose business was search (on a certain domain) and they had no tests for their "Search.java" file (the real name was 300x longer, because java devs…). I had found some operations to tweak the scoring, except that some were multiplications by one, so I removed them. But I got told to not touch them because they wouldn't know if I had broken it until some customer complained. The CTO told me off for my completely irresponsible behaviour.

TeMPOraL 3y ago

Proprietary software you don't have sources for (say e.g. a third-party library), or just about any black-box system, are counterexamples to your corollary.

rob74 3y ago
Yeah, some code runs for so long that the system's owners have issues with repairing/replacing the hardware it can only run on if it fails (and then sometimes resort to emulation of the old hardware to be able to keep running it).
nehal3m 3y ago
Well sort of, I can't read the binaries but I expect the vendor to have source and maintain it properly right?
- layer8 3y ago
  There's a lot of software that only exists in binary and whose vendors/maintainers are long gone, and that is used for decades because it just does its job.
  - nehal3m 3y ago
    You’re right, the sibling to the comment I responded to mentioned this as well and it gave me flashbacks to emulating an Amiga system to get a multi million dollar industrial system up and running.
- LtWorf 3y ago
  I've had a coworker commit a binary on git and keep the source on his machine. I'm sure it has happened more than once.

raziel2p 3y ago

That would be nice if it were true :(

benreesman 3y ago

Welcome to this side of the shop, I hope we can all make you feel welcome. :) Bad news: too few experienced ops people became one less!

ric2b 3y ago

The entire financial industry disagrees. Also can I interest you in coming out of retirement to explain your cobol code to other developers?

pards 3y ago
Or to help us understand that mission-critical MS Excel 5.0 spreadsheet? We need to retire that Windows 95 machine under John's desk.

TheCleric 3y ago

I think it can be run for as long as you have the right infrastructure. I'd say it's more 'code that can't be read won't be modifiable for long'.

ezekiel68 3y ago

Your point isn't a bad one, but it's really a separate topic. Assuming we aren't deailing with deliberate obfuscation, most code can be read by people who can be bothered to try, and there are always code formatters if necessary.