4 ms·

That's a good point, but you also explained why it's not too much of a concern. There are ways to fully control it, but it's all server side. The best protecte

That's a good point, but you also explained why it's not too much of a concern. There are ways to fully control it, but it's all server side. The best protected content is the content never served. They're stuck in a situation where the business model is pissing off (some of) their users, and they want to turn ad blocking users into either ad viewers (not going to happen) or paying customers (limited but possible success). Paywalling is the ultimate solution, but if Youtube does that, its status as the place to host video disappears within 6 months. This is why it's a pointless war; every effective solution to force ads or control content to restrict revenue loss will result in lower exposure and/or popularity. Ad companies can do a lot to build trust by no longer shipping Javascript-enabled bullshit, and stop selling scams. None of the bytes coming down the wire from an ad company are trustable, or do they contain anything actually useful. Why should we enable these designs or accept connections from those servers? All arguments boil down to half-assed moralizing about how we owe it to companies to help them profit. I'm not convinced. Markets are simple: provide value and you will find customers.

grogenaut 3y ago
You're both correct and also missing nuances that make it a lot more complex than what you're thinking. Ask yourself Why is paywalling different than ads that makes it more effective, then question if it actually is and if ads could be just as effective? I'm sadly not going to be able to explain more. Otherwise this would be a fun discussion. I do know with a low ad rate you could have people who block ads watch ads with an effective delivery system. Like everyone it's the right balance of ad rate with content rate, or you know just charging directly.
- zlg_codes 3y ago
  I'm not sure where you're going. Paywalling doesn't have to be all or nothing, you could show thumbnails and preview clips, but then require payment/subscription once the vid's clicked on. Or track them server side and give a limited number of video minutes before they're prompted to pay up. I think it would be effective because it would retain the "hook" that typically generates traffic. Show just enough to make the "Subscribe" button look easy and cheap. Native ads are annoying and thankfully skippable with things like SponsorBlock. Hard/impossible to block in the middle of a stream, though... I remember when ads on the Web were just clickable banners or those silly animated GIFs. While they still took up way too much screen real estate, it was possible to ignore them to some extent. Now it's not that easy, and you risk security because of all the surveillance. The people who avoid ads would rather not visit or use a site than reward the ad-shoving behavior. It's about time and respect; there really isn't any threshold that I will accept ads. If they ever play I reach to mute or switch or even close the tab. My attention isn't for sale.
benterix 3y ago
> they want to turn ad blocking users into either ad viewers (not going to happen) Actually if a niche is well-defined, and you don't push anything off-topic, this can work very well. My example: I often watch the DevOps Toolkit videos on YT (with the guy who works for Crossplane now), including sponsor block and often find something interesting and try it out. Some details to share: * DVT advertised Civo as the fastest k8s (in terms of time between terraform apply and a running cluster). Since I set up k8s clusters very often and I'm fed up with usual waiting times (20-30 mins for EKS, 3 minutes for Civo) I decided to give them a try. But it was impossible to get the account verified - my card was added but they couldn't "verify my account", whatever that means. And only at that moment I discovered why Civo was faster than the rest: they used k3s instead of k8s! I don't mind, k3s is CNCF-certified (but so is Minikube...). So I was a bit upset this important detail was missing from the comparison. * DVT advertised Hivelocity as the cheapest and fastest VPS, even cheaper than Hetzner (and they had a comparison table). Since I'm using Hetzner a lot I was curious to check them out and... for roughly the same price (around $4), Hivelocity has twice less RAM! Again, this little detail was missing from the ad. As you can see, I not only watch the videos but also check the ads, even if they are misleading, and will continue to do so because they are interesting to me. The moment DVT introduces ads for, say, air purifiers, I'll start blocking ads. It's not that I'm not interesting in air purifiers, it's just it doesn't fit the context.
- zlg_codes 3y ago
  Yeah, that's not for me. Ads don't encourage me to buy products, they annoy me. Especially if it's a brand I've already engaged with by buying their products. For example, don't serve Verizon ads to Verizon customers! Better yet, let me decide where what little capital I have will go. I don't need LLCs telling me what to buy, I know what I want better than they do.

grogenaut 3y ago

You're both correct and also missing nuances that make it a lot more complex than what you're thinking. Ask yourself Why is paywalling different than ads that makes it more effective, then question if it actually is and if ads could be just as effective? I'm sadly not going to be able to explain more. Otherwise this would be a fun discussion. I do know with a low ad rate you could have people who block ads watch ads with an effective delivery system. Like everyone it's the right balance of ad rate with content rate, or you know just charging directly.

zlg_codes 3y ago
I'm not sure where you're going. Paywalling doesn't have to be all or nothing, you could show thumbnails and preview clips, but then require payment/subscription once the vid's clicked on. Or track them server side and give a limited number of video minutes before they're prompted to pay up. I think it would be effective because it would retain the "hook" that typically generates traffic. Show just enough to make the "Subscribe" button look easy and cheap. Native ads are annoying and thankfully skippable with things like SponsorBlock. Hard/impossible to block in the middle of a stream, though... I remember when ads on the Web were just clickable banners or those silly animated GIFs. While they still took up way too much screen real estate, it was possible to ignore them to some extent. Now it's not that easy, and you risk security because of all the surveillance. The people who avoid ads would rather not visit or use a site than reward the ad-shoving behavior. It's about time and respect; there really isn't any threshold that I will accept ads. If they ever play I reach to mute or switch or even close the tab. My attention isn't for sale.

benterix 3y ago

> they want to turn ad blocking users into either ad viewers (not going to happen) Actually if a niche is well-defined, and you don't push anything off-topic, this can work very well. My example: I often watch the DevOps Toolkit videos on YT (with the guy who works for Crossplane now), including sponsor block and often find something interesting and try it out. Some details to share: * DVT advertised Civo as the fastest k8s (in terms of time between terraform apply and a running cluster). Since I set up k8s clusters very often and I'm fed up with usual waiting times (20-30 mins for EKS, 3 minutes for Civo) I decided to give them a try. But it was impossible to get the account verified - my card was added but they couldn't "verify my account", whatever that means. And only at that moment I discovered why Civo was faster than the rest: they used k3s instead of k8s! I don't mind, k3s is CNCF-certified (but so is Minikube...). So I was a bit upset this important detail was missing from the comparison. * DVT advertised Hivelocity as the cheapest and fastest VPS, even cheaper than Hetzner (and they had a comparison table). Since I'm using Hetzner a lot I was curious to check them out and... for roughly the same price (around $4), Hivelocity has twice less RAM! Again, this little detail was missing from the ad. As you can see, I not only watch the videos but also check the ads, even if they are misleading, and will continue to do so because they are interesting to me. The moment DVT introduces ads for, say, air purifiers, I'll start blocking ads. It's not that I'm not interesting in air purifiers, it's just it doesn't fit the context.

zlg_codes 3y ago
Yeah, that's not for me. Ads don't encourage me to buy products, they annoy me. Especially if it's a brand I've already engaged with by buying their products. For example, don't serve Verizon ads to Verizon customers! Better yet, let me decide where what little capital I have will go. I don't need LLCs telling me what to buy, I know what I want better than they do.