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The problem with crosswalks in North America is primarily cultural… If a driver sees me walking in the crosswalk and notices that our paths will intersect, he

The problem with crosswalks in North America is primarily cultural… If a driver sees me walking in the crosswalk and notices that our paths will intersect, he speeds up. Everyone does it and everyone accepts the behavior —- it has become so ingrained within driving culture that no one questions how insane it is to try to speed past a guy pushing a stroller to shave six seconds off of a trip. Of course, people respond to incentives, so we shouldn’t blame individuals for operating within the constraints they inherited. Traffic calming is the way to fix this problem but as long as we as a culture never ask drivers to make trade offs for pedestrians, we will always be stuck driving everywhere and forcing people to ask permission to cross the road. The problem with the button is this - too many intersections are built for cars and not people. The car is there “by default” and the pedestrian must ask permission to enter their realm. If there is a place which requires pedestrians to ask permission to enter a road which is dominated by fast moving cars…something has gone very wrong.

feoren 3y ago
> If a driver sees me walking in the crosswalk and notices that our paths will intersect, he speeds up. Everyone does it and everyone accepts the behavior It's a weird experience reading this about something I've never done nor really observed very often. People speed up when they see a pedestrian in a crosswalk? I see people stopping for pedestrians all the time. Sometimes cars will stop for me when I wish they wouldn't: just keep going, you were fine, I'm still like 5 seconds away from your path. > The car is there “by default” and the pedestrian must ask permission to enter their realm That's such a weirdly negative way of looking at the world. Dozens to hundreds of cars pass per minute and fewer than one pedestrian does (on average), so the pedestrian notifies the intersection that they're there. You'd rather every single light cycle assume pedestrians are crossing, even when 95% of the time they're not? You'd like to waste every driver's time to make some point about society? There are plenty of intersections where a very minor road crosses a main road. When cars come to the intersection on the minor road, they "hit the button" by driving over the sensor, and the intersection knows they're there. Are they the poor pathetic outsiders "asking for permission" to "enter the realm" of the major street? I guess you could look at it that way if you wanted to be angry all the time. It's just simple optimization to make as many people as happy as possible. Just hit the damn walk button; it's fine.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  Agreed, I've literally never seen anyone speed up to try to get through before I cross. Hell, often times at stop signs if I notice a car or two coming, I try to stand away from the sign to let them go before crossing, and yet still they often stop and gesture for me to cross first.
  - dublinben 3y ago
    How often are you walking around your city? I live in one of the most walkable cities in the US, and this is a weekly occurrence for me.
    - dotnet00 3y ago
      I haven't gotten around to learning to drive yet (didn't think I could afford it on a PhD stipend, but turns out I can, so working on it now), so I'm always on foot and always dealing with the half-baked public transport.
  - iambateman 3y ago
    It’s not that _everyone_ always speeds up…I was exaggerating to communicate what it feels like. Yes, many drivers try to be courteous. But many others are drag racing at 75 mph on a 35 mph road while I try to walk across with my child in the middle of the afternoon - an anecdote which is not exaggerated at all.
    - pugworthy 3y ago
      Don't exaggerate a stat like that. Speak rationally and use information, not hyperbole as there is no /h tag to show how you are making exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
  - erhaetherth 3y ago
    I sometimes pretend like I'm going somewhere else if I want them to go first.
nullc 3y ago
Mind sharing where you're located? Shortly after moving to Mountain View I was walking home from work and distracted thinking about a technical problem, I managed to walk right in front of a car that had the green. They stopped and apologized to me! (I assume they were also somewhat distracted and thought they were at fault...) Very different experience from the east coast. I don't recall anyone in norcal speeding up towards pedestrians. And on bikes at unprotected crossings and in merging cars I've experienced the opposite problem where everyone slows down, spacing out traffic to optimally make it so you don't get a break long enough to allow crossing.
- iambateman 3y ago
  I’m in Columbia, SC. The truth is that some of the most dangerous places I walk are usually dominated by poor pedestrians who often don’t follow traffic laws. I think that has contributed to an especially bad micro-culture around a few blocks where people just get used to weaving their car in between rather annoying pedestrians. I’ll never forget one day when I was in Sweden trying to cross a road. A driver stopped for me to cross and I was so surprised it actually changed what I expect of myself when near pedestrians.
  - ttymck 3y ago
    Have you visited other places in North America, or are you assuming everywhere is like Columbia?
theonething 3y ago
> If a driver sees me walking in the crosswalk and notices that our paths will intersect, he speeds up. I've lived in the US all my life and I don't recall seeing this even once. On the other hand, the thing I experience that infuriates me is when the walk sign comes on so I start to step off the curb to cross and a car making a right turn at my corner of the intersection doesn't even pretend to check for pedestrians and comes barreling through the corner because they were trying to beat the red light. Most of the time they see me at the last second and stop before running me over. I make a point of quickly stepping back on to curb and giving them a death stare before I continue. Sometimes they don't see me and barrel through the corner. If I don't step back, I would get run over. Infuriating.
brianpan 3y ago
That's really weird to attribute it to North America. I find the norms are different pretty much everywhere I've been. East Coast, Midwest, West Coast, city vs suburb. In some places the pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way (cars going 40-50 mph will stop for pedestrian crossing). In other places, cars slowly force their way into a full crosswalk. Yes, it's cultural. But it's different everywhere in the US.

feoren 3y ago

> If a driver sees me walking in the crosswalk and notices that our paths will intersect, he speeds up. Everyone does it and everyone accepts the behavior It's a weird experience reading this about something I've never done nor really observed very often. People speed up when they see a pedestrian in a crosswalk? I see people stopping for pedestrians all the time. Sometimes cars will stop for me when I wish they wouldn't: just keep going, you were fine, I'm still like 5 seconds away from your path. > The car is there “by default” and the pedestrian must ask permission to enter their realm That's such a weirdly negative way of looking at the world. Dozens to hundreds of cars pass per minute and fewer than one pedestrian does (on average), so the pedestrian notifies the intersection that they're there. You'd rather every single light cycle assume pedestrians are crossing, even when 95% of the time they're not? You'd like to waste every driver's time to make some point about society? There are plenty of intersections where a very minor road crosses a main road. When cars come to the intersection on the minor road, they "hit the button" by driving over the sensor, and the intersection knows they're there. Are they the poor pathetic outsiders "asking for permission" to "enter the realm" of the major street? I guess you could look at it that way if you wanted to be angry all the time. It's just simple optimization to make as many people as happy as possible. Just hit the damn walk button; it's fine.

dotnet00 3y ago
Agreed, I've literally never seen anyone speed up to try to get through before I cross. Hell, often times at stop signs if I notice a car or two coming, I try to stand away from the sign to let them go before crossing, and yet still they often stop and gesture for me to cross first.
- dublinben 3y ago
  How often are you walking around your city? I live in one of the most walkable cities in the US, and this is a weekly occurrence for me.
  - dotnet00 3y ago
    I haven't gotten around to learning to drive yet (didn't think I could afford it on a PhD stipend, but turns out I can, so working on it now), so I'm always on foot and always dealing with the half-baked public transport.
- iambateman 3y ago
  It’s not that _everyone_ always speeds up…I was exaggerating to communicate what it feels like. Yes, many drivers try to be courteous. But many others are drag racing at 75 mph on a 35 mph road while I try to walk across with my child in the middle of the afternoon - an anecdote which is not exaggerated at all.
  - pugworthy 3y ago
    Don't exaggerate a stat like that. Speak rationally and use information, not hyperbole as there is no /h tag to show how you are making exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
- erhaetherth 3y ago
  I sometimes pretend like I'm going somewhere else if I want them to go first.

nullc 3y ago

Mind sharing where you're located? Shortly after moving to Mountain View I was walking home from work and distracted thinking about a technical problem, I managed to walk right in front of a car that had the green. They stopped and apologized to me! (I assume they were also somewhat distracted and thought they were at fault...) Very different experience from the east coast. I don't recall anyone in norcal speeding up towards pedestrians. And on bikes at unprotected crossings and in merging cars I've experienced the opposite problem where everyone slows down, spacing out traffic to optimally make it so you don't get a break long enough to allow crossing.

iambateman 3y ago
I’m in Columbia, SC. The truth is that some of the most dangerous places I walk are usually dominated by poor pedestrians who often don’t follow traffic laws. I think that has contributed to an especially bad micro-culture around a few blocks where people just get used to weaving their car in between rather annoying pedestrians. I’ll never forget one day when I was in Sweden trying to cross a road. A driver stopped for me to cross and I was so surprised it actually changed what I expect of myself when near pedestrians.
- ttymck 3y ago
  Have you visited other places in North America, or are you assuming everywhere is like Columbia?

theonething 3y ago

> If a driver sees me walking in the crosswalk and notices that our paths will intersect, he speeds up. I've lived in the US all my life and I don't recall seeing this even once. On the other hand, the thing I experience that infuriates me is when the walk sign comes on so I start to step off the curb to cross and a car making a right turn at my corner of the intersection doesn't even pretend to check for pedestrians and comes barreling through the corner because they were trying to beat the red light. Most of the time they see me at the last second and stop before running me over. I make a point of quickly stepping back on to curb and giving them a death stare before I continue. Sometimes they don't see me and barrel through the corner. If I don't step back, I would get run over. Infuriating.

brianpan 3y ago

That's really weird to attribute it to North America. I find the norms are different pretty much everywhere I've been. East Coast, Midwest, West Coast, city vs suburb. In some places the pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way (cars going 40-50 mph will stop for pedestrian crossing). In other places, cars slowly force their way into a full crosswalk. Yes, it's cultural. But it's different everywhere in the US.