4 ms·

In the age of containers, what are you seeing net new VM provisioning for?

phpisthebest 3y ago
You act has if windows does not exist. My company and most of the companies I know run on windows server for line of business functions which are one prem when run on VMware Contaniers and Linux may run the cloud but at least in the US Microsoft owns on prem workload for every day business functions For every Linux server I manage there is about 30 or 40 Windows servers
- btmiller 3y ago
  How’s that market doing? Growing much?
  - phpisthebest 3y ago
    Outside of web development and web-based servers Yes it's growing just fine There's no doubt that Linux owns the web but for everything else there's a crap ton of legacy business software line of business apps databases file servers and tons of other things that run on Windows server
    - mdhb 3y ago
      You don’t need to just make things up and then scold others like they were idiots who are stuck in a bubble. Growth is non existent and has actually gone down every year since 2008 according to Google Trends data. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?hl=en-US&tz=0&date=all&hl=en&q=%2Fm%2F02p4v9p&sni=6 https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?hl=en-US&tz=0&date=...
      - techwizard81 3y ago
        First time I hear somebody saying that Windows servers being used more in the enterprise is a made up statement LOL Google search trend isn't directly linked to marketshare
        mdhb 3y ago
        I said it wasn’t growing and hasn’t been for over a decade and a half. If you have stats proving otherwise feel free to provide.
      - phpisthebest 3y ago
        All of those trends are based on WEB SERVERS, as is every other online metric you will find. I can not provide you an Install count stat, i am sure someone deep inside Microsoft knows that number, but windows servers are used in non-public facing workloads. Not on the Internet. that deviation happened years ago. However since we are talking about vmWare which is also using mostly in non-internet facing workloads then it is relevant. I have some 20 years of experience as a system administrator on internal IT Teams, I don't support cloud apps, I do not develop cloud apps, i dont do DevOps, the only "cloud" companies like mine use is Office 365. I work exclusive on supporting internal workloads for companies in the Manufacturing / Industrial market segments For industries like mine windows is the dominate server platform, most of our software vendors require it, often also requiring SQL Server. Hell I have multimillion dollar pieces of equipment that come in with Windows 10 has system they are using to control them. Out side of the Web, linux is a minor player
        mdhb 3y ago
        You kind of started off by saying that Google trends data only represents web servers which is entirely incorrect and has no relationship with how Google trends works or what that chart represents. So I don’t really know how else to respond to this… it also relies on a secret magic number that nobody can see that shows the real truth so it’s kind of a silly argument. If windows server usage is growing surely there must be a lot of compelling evidence to back it up?
- photonbeam 3y ago
  What is the windows marketshare in servers? I haven’t encountered a single one in the last 15 years
  - phpisthebest 3y ago
    Then you only work in your niche market or don't work in system administration of any company of any size
  - techwizard81 3y ago
    You must work in a very niche market, in my last 25 years, 100% of the company I worked for were primarly based on windows servers. Yes there are linux servers and the number is increasing, but still represents a very small percentage compared to windows server.
al_borland 3y ago
Where I'm at, it's applications that teams don't want to spend time moving to containers, or they claim the app runs better on dedicated VMs, and in other cases they just aren't ready to move yet and still need to add capacity until that time comes. Even teams that are utilizing containers heavily in some areas are still building hundreds of VMs for other parts of the app. Containers first might be fine for a net new application. But if something is already 10-20 years old, that isn't going to change overnight. I think it would take something drastic for us to get off VMs completely, even if I'm looking 5-10 years out.
- _w1tm 3y ago
  Check out KubeVirt, you can mix containers with VMs.
smartbit 3y ago
Interesting question. Before anything else, we need some basic services like dns, mail, git, etc. How do you suggest deploying these in a on-prem/selfhosted environment? I assume not on Kubernetes or the like as that could cause chick-and-egg issues? Each service should be high-available also. For dns & smtp quite possible, and gitlab seems to support high availability too https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/administration/reference_architectures/ https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/administration/reference_architec... Have you even seen a complete container-based infrastructure on top of bare-metal without any VM?
- snapplebobapple 3y ago
  Its this. Domain controller, dns, nessus scanner to start at every office site. Next up legacy csttom windows apps. Maybe i could add a lot of complexity and throw those in kubevirt but there isnt a massive benefit when my work load looks like so very many other medium sized non software businesses:3-10 vms per site across 3-20 sites handles our entire workload when combined with o365 for business

You act has if windows does not exist. My company and most of the companies I know run on windows server for line of business functions which are one prem when run on VMware Contaniers and Linux may run the cloud but at least in the US Microsoft owns on prem workload for every day business functions For every Linux server I manage there is about 30 or 40 Windows servers

btmiller 3y ago
How’s that market doing? Growing much?
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  Outside of web development and web-based servers Yes it's growing just fine There's no doubt that Linux owns the web but for everything else there's a crap ton of legacy business software line of business apps databases file servers and tons of other things that run on Windows server
  - mdhb 3y ago
    You don’t need to just make things up and then scold others like they were idiots who are stuck in a bubble. Growth is non existent and has actually gone down every year since 2008 according to Google Trends data. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?hl=en-US&tz=0&date=all&hl=en&q=%2Fm%2F02p4v9p&sni=6 https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?hl=en-US&tz=0&date=...
    - techwizard81 3y ago
      First time I hear somebody saying that Windows servers being used more in the enterprise is a made up statement LOL Google search trend isn't directly linked to marketshare
      - mdhb 3y ago
        I said it wasn’t growing and hasn’t been for over a decade and a half. If you have stats proving otherwise feel free to provide.
    - phpisthebest 3y ago
      All of those trends are based on WEB SERVERS, as is every other online metric you will find. I can not provide you an Install count stat, i am sure someone deep inside Microsoft knows that number, but windows servers are used in non-public facing workloads. Not on the Internet. that deviation happened years ago. However since we are talking about vmWare which is also using mostly in non-internet facing workloads then it is relevant. I have some 20 years of experience as a system administrator on internal IT Teams, I don't support cloud apps, I do not develop cloud apps, i dont do DevOps, the only "cloud" companies like mine use is Office 365. I work exclusive on supporting internal workloads for companies in the Manufacturing / Industrial market segments For industries like mine windows is the dominate server platform, most of our software vendors require it, often also requiring SQL Server. Hell I have multimillion dollar pieces of equipment that come in with Windows 10 has system they are using to control them. Out side of the Web, linux is a minor player
      - mdhb 3y ago
        You kind of started off by saying that Google trends data only represents web servers which is entirely incorrect and has no relationship with how Google trends works or what that chart represents. So I don’t really know how else to respond to this… it also relies on a secret magic number that nobody can see that shows the real truth so it’s kind of a silly argument. If windows server usage is growing surely there must be a lot of compelling evidence to back it up?
photonbeam 3y ago
What is the windows marketshare in servers? I haven’t encountered a single one in the last 15 years
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  Then you only work in your niche market or don't work in system administration of any company of any size
- techwizard81 3y ago
  You must work in a very niche market, in my last 25 years, 100% of the company I worked for were primarly based on windows servers. Yes there are linux servers and the number is increasing, but still represents a very small percentage compared to windows server.

al_borland 3y ago

Where I'm at, it's applications that teams don't want to spend time moving to containers, or they claim the app runs better on dedicated VMs, and in other cases they just aren't ready to move yet and still need to add capacity until that time comes. Even teams that are utilizing containers heavily in some areas are still building hundreds of VMs for other parts of the app. Containers first might be fine for a net new application. But if something is already 10-20 years old, that isn't going to change overnight. I think it would take something drastic for us to get off VMs completely, even if I'm looking 5-10 years out.

_w1tm 3y ago
Check out KubeVirt, you can mix containers with VMs.

smartbit 3y ago

Interesting question. Before anything else, we need some basic services like dns, mail, git, etc. How do you suggest deploying these in a on-prem/selfhosted environment? I assume not on Kubernetes or the like as that could cause chick-and-egg issues? Each service should be high-available also. For dns & smtp quite possible, and gitlab seems to support high availability too https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/administration/reference_architectures/ https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/administration/reference_architec... Have you even seen a complete container-based infrastructure on top of bare-metal without any VM?

snapplebobapple 3y ago
Its this. Domain controller, dns, nessus scanner to start at every office site. Next up legacy csttom windows apps. Maybe i could add a lot of complexity and throw those in kubevirt but there isnt a massive benefit when my work load looks like so very many other medium sized non software businesses:3-10 vms per site across 3-20 sites handles our entire workload when combined with o365 for business