4 ms·

Might have something to do with the $30 per seat license cost of Java v9+

by Jimmc414 3y ago

water9 3y ago
And the fact that you have to rename everything to Jakarta and rebuild dependencies
- yardstick 3y ago
  This is the biggest issue. No issues with licensing - openjdk and others are perfect for production use for the vast majority (imo). Some supermassive projects excluded but they are always outliers. The migration path after 8 is just a pain, As you mentioned, package. The name changes are for no benefit to developers or end users.
- skissane 3y ago
  I use Java 11 (actually Eclipse Temurin/Adoptium, formerly known as AdoptOpenJDk) with bits of Java EE 8, it works fine. (Not using the whole EE stack, just select components such as servlets and JAX-RS.) Tried upgrading to Jakarta EE, got hit by needing to upgrade dozens of random open source libraries to newer versions with Jakarta EE support, some of which had breaking changes which have nothing actually to do with Jakarta EE. I’m sure it will get finished eventually. I recently joined an AI team (platform/infrastructure/apps rather than the actual data science proper) and since then I’m trying to do less and less in Java and more and more in Python-so that mess may be left for someone else to resolve. But Python contains dependency hells of its own
- manyxcxi 3y ago
  THIS is the real problem. For _most_ projects upgrading from 8 to 9 meant just adding a few packages that were removed from default JDK with Jigsaw. That part is generally fine, even with OSGi hell. The Javax -> Jakarta changes for validation, EE, XML, etc. are a damn nightmare!
  - seanthemon 3y ago
    And if you're using microservices it's either a total migration (a no go for anyone minimizing bugs and outages), or a slow one-by-one trudge, if you use some commons between them that commons will need to support both javax and jakarta together, superbly fun
    - manyxcxi 3y ago
      You just described my last 6 weeks…
- mleo 3y ago
  There is a gradle plugin that can rewrite jar dependencies class files to be jakarta packages from javax. This makes updating your code the major issue versus also figuring out every dependency at once.
  - water9 3y ago
    Would you happen to know the name of this plug in? It would be a great help
- nogridbag 3y ago
  Shout out to Quarkus which uses OpenRewrite recipes to automatically modify your source files for you. Upgrading to the latest Jakarta EE was basically a single command.
  - water9 3y ago
    That is fantastic news Thank you for posting.
scrapcode 3y ago
Oracle's new "Universal Subscription" pricing structure is even more ridiculous at $180/yr per employee in your company.
- treyd 3y ago
  How does that not turn into making a technically-separate legal entity with just the product as an asset and no employees that's wholly owned by a parent company that it also buys development contracts for the product from?
  - scrapcode 3y ago
    Great point! For one, this is not something the Government can do - which I'm sure is a large Java customer.
ivanjermakov 3y ago
Isn't OpenJDK provides the same functionality and is FOSS?

Might have something to do with the $30 per seat license cost of Java v9+

water9 3y ago

And the fact that you have to rename everything to Jakarta and rebuild dependencies

yardstick 3y ago
This is the biggest issue. No issues with licensing - openjdk and others are perfect for production use for the vast majority (imo). Some supermassive projects excluded but they are always outliers. The migration path after 8 is just a pain, As you mentioned, package. The name changes are for no benefit to developers or end users.
skissane 3y ago
I use Java 11 (actually Eclipse Temurin/Adoptium, formerly known as AdoptOpenJDk) with bits of Java EE 8, it works fine. (Not using the whole EE stack, just select components such as servlets and JAX-RS.) Tried upgrading to Jakarta EE, got hit by needing to upgrade dozens of random open source libraries to newer versions with Jakarta EE support, some of which had breaking changes which have nothing actually to do with Jakarta EE. I’m sure it will get finished eventually. I recently joined an AI team (platform/infrastructure/apps rather than the actual data science proper) and since then I’m trying to do less and less in Java and more and more in Python-so that mess may be left for someone else to resolve. But Python contains dependency hells of its own
manyxcxi 3y ago
THIS is the real problem. For _most_ projects upgrading from 8 to 9 meant just adding a few packages that were removed from default JDK with Jigsaw. That part is generally fine, even with OSGi hell. The Javax -> Jakarta changes for validation, EE, XML, etc. are a damn nightmare!
- seanthemon 3y ago
  And if you're using microservices it's either a total migration (a no go for anyone minimizing bugs and outages), or a slow one-by-one trudge, if you use some commons between them that commons will need to support both javax and jakarta together, superbly fun
  - manyxcxi 3y ago
    You just described my last 6 weeks…
mleo 3y ago
There is a gradle plugin that can rewrite jar dependencies class files to be jakarta packages from javax. This makes updating your code the major issue versus also figuring out every dependency at once.
- water9 3y ago
  Would you happen to know the name of this plug in? It would be a great help
nogridbag 3y ago
Shout out to Quarkus which uses OpenRewrite recipes to automatically modify your source files for you. Upgrading to the latest Jakarta EE was basically a single command.
- water9 3y ago
  That is fantastic news Thank you for posting.

scrapcode 3y ago

Oracle's new "Universal Subscription" pricing structure is even more ridiculous at $180/yr per employee in your company.

treyd 3y ago
How does that not turn into making a technically-separate legal entity with just the product as an asset and no employees that's wholly owned by a parent company that it also buys development contracts for the product from?
- scrapcode 3y ago
  Great point! For one, this is not something the Government can do - which I'm sure is a large Java customer.

ivanjermakov 3y ago

Isn't OpenJDK provides the same functionality and is FOSS?