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Holy mother of dark patterns! The default tab in the table is the “PROBABLE SAVINGS*” tab instead of the actual prices. (There’s actually no actual price, just

Holy mother of dark patterns! The default tab in the table is the “PROBABLE SAVINGS*” tab instead of the actual prices. (There’s actually no actual price, just estimates.) Besides, does anybody believe their estimated prices for “available in 2025”? * From the same trusted salesman who sold robotaxies making $30k/year!

giobox 3y ago
There's even a "dark pattern" with the quoted 0-60 times. They've subtracted the rollout only on the fastest model to make the gap between it and the mid-spec model appear larger (notice the asterisk only on the top spec car's 0-60 time). Not the first time they've done this either, they've done the same thing with the Plaid Model S specs before. I don't really care about the debate over whether subtracting rollout is legitimate - it's just very silly the 0-60 measurement methodology isn't consistent across all three models on the page.
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  They do it on the Model 3 as well. The Model 3 Performance is 1Ft rollout (3.1s) but the Dual Motor Long Range is not. Car and driver tested it to 3.99 when Tesla says ~4.2s
  - rogerkirkness 3y ago
    At least the lying is in the slow direction rather than the fast direction.
    - giobox 3y ago
      No, its the same direction again. The 3.99 achieved by car and driver is for the dual motor mid range car, which tesla quote at 4.2. Tesla quote the top spec Performance at 3.1 seconds to 60 with roll out subtraction only on the fastest car again. Car and Driver however also subtract rollout in their tests, so again its not a valid comparison to the 4.2 figure from Tesla with rollout included, making things even more confusing here.
airstrike 3y ago
just select the "Purchase price" tab at the top? not every marketing gimmick is a dark pattern
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- agloe_dreams 3y ago
  I mean, if the prices listed involve some sort of magic math by default..that is a dark pattern.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  >not every marketing gimmick is a dark pattern Gimmick sounds equivalent to dark pattern to me. >A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus.
qarl 3y ago
From the guy who predicted COVID would be over in two weeks. I don't think you can trust his predictions. He doesn't have a great record with that.
- hypertele-Xii 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - qarl 3y ago
    LOL. I should never underestimate the ingenuity of his fans.
jeffreyrogers 3y ago
There is a $7.5k tax credit which definitely counts as savings. The gas savings are more speculative, and it's debatable if that's reasonable to count (many people compare lifetime cost of ownership when making a car purchase though).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Animats 3y ago
From the announced US$39K to US$61K, plus two more years of delivery slip for the base model? By the time it ships, Toyota should be shipping solid state batteries and Tesla's battery technology will be obsolete.

giobox 3y ago

There's even a "dark pattern" with the quoted 0-60 times. They've subtracted the rollout only on the fastest model to make the gap between it and the mid-spec model appear larger (notice the asterisk only on the top spec car's 0-60 time). Not the first time they've done this either, they've done the same thing with the Plaid Model S specs before. I don't really care about the debate over whether subtracting rollout is legitimate - it's just very silly the 0-60 measurement methodology isn't consistent across all three models on the page.

agloe_dreams 3y ago
They do it on the Model 3 as well. The Model 3 Performance is 1Ft rollout (3.1s) but the Dual Motor Long Range is not. Car and driver tested it to 3.99 when Tesla says ~4.2s
- rogerkirkness 3y ago
  At least the lying is in the slow direction rather than the fast direction.
  - giobox 3y ago
    No, its the same direction again. The 3.99 achieved by car and driver is for the dual motor mid range car, which tesla quote at 4.2. Tesla quote the top spec Performance at 3.1 seconds to 60 with roll out subtraction only on the fastest car again. Car and Driver however also subtract rollout in their tests, so again its not a valid comparison to the 4.2 figure from Tesla with rollout included, making things even more confusing here.

airstrike 3y ago

just select the "Purchase price" tab at the top? not every marketing gimmick is a dark pattern

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
agloe_dreams 3y ago
I mean, if the prices listed involve some sort of magic math by default..that is a dark pattern.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
>not every marketing gimmick is a dark pattern Gimmick sounds equivalent to dark pattern to me. >A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus.

qarl 3y ago

From the guy who predicted COVID would be over in two weeks. I don't think you can trust his predictions. He doesn't have a great record with that.

hypertele-Xii 3y ago
[flagged]
- qarl 3y ago
  LOL. I should never underestimate the ingenuity of his fans.

jeffreyrogers 3y ago

There is a $7.5k tax credit which definitely counts as savings. The gas savings are more speculative, and it's debatable if that's reasonable to count (many people compare lifetime cost of ownership when making a car purchase though).

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Animats 3y ago

From the announced US$39K to US$61K, plus two more years of delivery slip for the base model? By the time it ships, Toyota should be shipping solid state batteries and Tesla's battery technology will be obsolete.