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One of the things that has always tickled me about this bent of "liberal thinking" is that they generally believe two things at once: 1. people who commit crim

by dolni 3y ago

One of the things that has always tickled me about this bent of "liberal thinking" is that they generally believe two things at once: 1. people who commit crimes -- even heinous ones -- deserve a second chance and reintegration with society (except, perhaps, for a select few crimes which may not even be especially heinous in the broader context) 2. people who hold unacceptable opinions are irredeemable Regardless of what you think about DHH's opinions, it strikes me as magnificently childish to cause this kind of organizational disruption because of an opinion. The guy isn't funneling money to Nazi concentration camps. He has an opinion, and it's different from yours. Grow up.

shadowgovt 3y ago
People who commit crimes and are held accountable deserve a second chance. In this context, you're looking at the "hold him accountable" phase of that process.
- dolni 3y ago
  You are implying here that having and expressing an opinion on social policy is worth "holding someone accountable" for. Be careful with that hammer. It feels righteous to wield until the acceptable opinion changes in a way you don't agree with. Also, this kind of thing may be a net benefit for DHH. It's publicity. Time will tell.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    Yes, I agree. I believe accounting for the prevailing attitudes of the times is called "living in a society." We all do it. Some hills are worth dying on some are not. I came of age in the technical space in a generation that felt that it didn't matter if you had a secret shrine to Hitler as long as you could code a performant file system. It's refreshing to have seen the pendulum swing away from that extremism. Perhaps because too many of us have borne witness to the monsters taking those performant file systems and using them to coordinate violent attacks on innocent people. But perhaps more importantly... He's not just espousing an opinion. A chief officer is speaking as an executive of a company. Always.
TheCleric 3y ago
The difference you’re missing is contrition. Among those advocating for second chances one of the key steps is the party acknowledging the harm they’ve done so as not to do it again.
- dolni 3y ago
  As this applies to DHH, are you suggesting that having and expressing an opinion can cause "harm"?
  - TheCleric 3y ago
    Of course it can. If I tell my wife that it’s my opinion that she needs to lose weight, that would certainly harm her mental and emotional state.
    - dolni 3y ago
      If this is the bar for “harming your wife’s mental and emotional state”, I bid you the very best luck working through literally anything difficult. And all relationships eventually do encounter difficulties. Something being uncomfortable and something being harmful are very different.
dangus 3y ago
One of the things that’s always tickled me about this bent of “conservative thinking” is that they generally believe two things at once: 1. Freedom of speech and self-determination are sacred and fundamental rights, and in the economic market that means that everyone is free to make purchase decisions based on closely-held personal beliefs. Private schools have the right to exercise their freedom to make their own curriculum without government intervention. 2. People and private organizations who choose not to buy a product based on closely held personal beliefs that are the wrong ones are childish cancel culture warriors. Why should you care about Duke’s organizational disruption anyway? It’s a private school and you don’t work there.
- dolni 3y ago
  I don't label myself conservative. Conservatives also exhibit this behavior, but it is seen as more "socially acceptable" to do this under the banner of liberal values. To address your point, I am not disputing Duke's _right_ to make purchasing decisions for any reason they like. But it is still stupid and childish. I'm calling that out. > Why should you care about Duke’s organizational disruption anyway? It’s a private school and you don’t work there. Because Duke is attempting to normalize toxic behavior. They think this is going to help. It won't. This behavior might achieve "compliance" but it doesn't actually move the needle. It's why places like San Francisco appear to support underserved communities, but when push comes to shove they blockade housing initiatives. This is almost certainly some liberal, white woman's way of looking like a good person without having to risk anything. After work it's back to the gated community!
  - dangus 3y ago
    Ok, I fully understand your point of view now. I also agree that you can’t be labeled as conservative. We will finish the discussion here with your final key points: 1. Duke’s behavior is more societally acceptable because the libs agree with it 2. San Francisco is bad and run poorly by the libs 3. This is probably something a lib white woman thought of I totally agree, you definitely aren’t anything like the a mainstream conservative. Perhaps you identify as a libertarian-leaning independent instead.
- 3y ago

by dolni 3y ago

shadowgovt 3y ago

People who commit crimes and are held accountable deserve a second chance. In this context, you're looking at the "hold him accountable" phase of that process.

dolni 3y ago
You are implying here that having and expressing an opinion on social policy is worth "holding someone accountable" for. Be careful with that hammer. It feels righteous to wield until the acceptable opinion changes in a way you don't agree with. Also, this kind of thing may be a net benefit for DHH. It's publicity. Time will tell.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  Yes, I agree. I believe accounting for the prevailing attitudes of the times is called "living in a society." We all do it. Some hills are worth dying on some are not. I came of age in the technical space in a generation that felt that it didn't matter if you had a secret shrine to Hitler as long as you could code a performant file system. It's refreshing to have seen the pendulum swing away from that extremism. Perhaps because too many of us have borne witness to the monsters taking those performant file systems and using them to coordinate violent attacks on innocent people. But perhaps more importantly... He's not just espousing an opinion. A chief officer is speaking as an executive of a company. Always.

TheCleric 3y ago

The difference you’re missing is contrition. Among those advocating for second chances one of the key steps is the party acknowledging the harm they’ve done so as not to do it again.

dolni 3y ago
As this applies to DHH, are you suggesting that having and expressing an opinion can cause "harm"?
- TheCleric 3y ago
  Of course it can. If I tell my wife that it’s my opinion that she needs to lose weight, that would certainly harm her mental and emotional state.
  - dolni 3y ago
    If this is the bar for “harming your wife’s mental and emotional state”, I bid you the very best luck working through literally anything difficult. And all relationships eventually do encounter difficulties. Something being uncomfortable and something being harmful are very different.

dangus 3y ago

One of the things that’s always tickled me about this bent of “conservative thinking” is that they generally believe two things at once: 1. Freedom of speech and self-determination are sacred and fundamental rights, and in the economic market that means that everyone is free to make purchase decisions based on closely-held personal beliefs. Private schools have the right to exercise their freedom to make their own curriculum without government intervention. 2. People and private organizations who choose not to buy a product based on closely held personal beliefs that are the wrong ones are childish cancel culture warriors. Why should you care about Duke’s organizational disruption anyway? It’s a private school and you don’t work there.

dolni 3y ago
I don't label myself conservative. Conservatives also exhibit this behavior, but it is seen as more "socially acceptable" to do this under the banner of liberal values. To address your point, I am not disputing Duke's _right_ to make purchasing decisions for any reason they like. But it is still stupid and childish. I'm calling that out. > Why should you care about Duke’s organizational disruption anyway? It’s a private school and you don’t work there. Because Duke is attempting to normalize toxic behavior. They think this is going to help. It won't. This behavior might achieve "compliance" but it doesn't actually move the needle. It's why places like San Francisco appear to support underserved communities, but when push comes to shove they blockade housing initiatives. This is almost certainly some liberal, white woman's way of looking like a good person without having to risk anything. After work it's back to the gated community!
- dangus 3y ago
  Ok, I fully understand your point of view now. I also agree that you can’t be labeled as conservative. We will finish the discussion here with your final key points: 1. Duke’s behavior is more societally acceptable because the libs agree with it 2. San Francisco is bad and run poorly by the libs 3. This is probably something a lib white woman thought of I totally agree, you definitely aren’t anything like the a mainstream conservative. Perhaps you identify as a libertarian-leaning independent instead.
3y ago