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For the longest time, a section of the car enthusiast community has said that 'slow car fast is better than fast car fast'. Now a days, it is taken to mean that

by screye 3y ago

For the longest time, a section of the car enthusiast community has said that 'slow car fast is better than fast car fast'. Now a days, it is taken to mean that a light car that is fast enough is always more fun than a heavier car, no matter how fast. The Tesla Cybertruck might be the best example of this phenomenon. At 7000 lbs and a high ground clearance, there is no amount of power that can make this car feel nimble.

yreg 3y ago
> At 7000 lbs and a high ground clearance, there is no amount of power that can make this car feel nimble. Why do you believe that? (I assume you have not test driven it.) From the videos it seems to feel very nimble.
- rainsford 3y ago
  I have admittedly not test driven it, but there's certain fundamental physical realities that are pretty hard to overcome. Ride height and vehicle weight universally negatively impact handling on the road because they increase your momentum, center of gravity, suspension travel, etc. Weight in particular is hard to counteract because going around a corner relies on being able to redirect that mass using only the friction generated by the contact patch of the tires. Unless Tesla has found unobtanium tires or figured out how to negate the laws of physics, cornering at any kind of speed in a cybertruck is going to suck compared to a lighter vehicle.
  - yreg 3y ago
    Thanks for explaining your thoughts.
    - xcv123 3y ago
      Motorsports enthusiasts look at Nürburgring lap times. The Porsche 911 is at the highest level of performance on any track where you actually have to use the brakes and steering wheel. If the Cybertruck can do a good lap on the Nürburgring then its "FAST", but it probably isn't, due to weight. The 911 is not built for drag racing, it's built for a track with corners where you have to use the brakes and steering wheel. In terms of pure drag racing the Cybertruck is a loser. Top Fuel dragsters can do 0 to 60 in ~0.8 seconds and can do a quarter mile in less than 5 seconds. There's no comparison here. But the Cybertruck has an insane amount of torque, 10x beyond the equivalent ICE vehicle. It can tow, that's for sure.
      - yreg 3y ago
        I see, it depends on what you consider a 'good lap'. I expect it might be able to do Nurburgring faster than many cars I consider nimble. But I also don't think that 0 to 60 in 2.6s is 'a loser'. Cars that take twice as much feel already very fast to me.
        xcv123 3y ago
        By "loser" I only meant by comparison with the best ICE in that category of pure drag racing. It's definitely not a loser, but it is a "loser" versus ICE. I'm not saying the Cybertruck is shit. It's a torque monster and I want one. But it will struggle with cornering because of its 6800 pound kerb weight which is double the 911 kerb weight. Too heavy, can't compete. What's most impressive to me is they figured out how to make flat body panels on the Cybertruck without warping (which would ruin the aesthetics). It would look cheap if they didn't get that right.
        kortilla 3y ago
        Comparing it with ICE engines that aren’t street legal misses the point.
        xcv123 3y ago
        Try it with the most illegal electric vehicle. Won't compete with Top Fuel dragsters. Fundamental physical limitations of batteries versus combustion. But the Cybertruck has 10x the torque of the equivalent ICE vehicle, so it can beat the 911 in a drag race, while towing a 911. Incredible. This is where it completely destroys ICE. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1730331223992472029 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1730331223992472029
        kortilla 3y ago
        You’re still missing the point! I don’t care about the performance of illegal vehicles and neither do 99.99% of other vehicle buyers.
  - EnigmaFlare 3y ago
    > Weight in particular is hard to counteract because going around a corner relies on being able to redirect that mass using only the friction generated by the contact patch of the tires. Are you sure about that? Tyre friction force is at least to first approximation proportional to vehicle weight, and so is the force needed to turn at a particular radius and speed, so they balance independently of weight. I'd say weight doesn't necessarily make a difference to turning ability. CoM height yes, though.
- mvdtnz 3y ago
  Basic physics.
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by screye 3y ago

yreg 3y ago

> At 7000 lbs and a high ground clearance, there is no amount of power that can make this car feel nimble. Why do you believe that? (I assume you have not test driven it.) From the videos it seems to feel very nimble.

rainsford 3y ago
I have admittedly not test driven it, but there's certain fundamental physical realities that are pretty hard to overcome. Ride height and vehicle weight universally negatively impact handling on the road because they increase your momentum, center of gravity, suspension travel, etc. Weight in particular is hard to counteract because going around a corner relies on being able to redirect that mass using only the friction generated by the contact patch of the tires. Unless Tesla has found unobtanium tires or figured out how to negate the laws of physics, cornering at any kind of speed in a cybertruck is going to suck compared to a lighter vehicle.
- yreg 3y ago
  Thanks for explaining your thoughts.
  - xcv123 3y ago
    Motorsports enthusiasts look at Nürburgring lap times. The Porsche 911 is at the highest level of performance on any track where you actually have to use the brakes and steering wheel. If the Cybertruck can do a good lap on the Nürburgring then its "FAST", but it probably isn't, due to weight. The 911 is not built for drag racing, it's built for a track with corners where you have to use the brakes and steering wheel. In terms of pure drag racing the Cybertruck is a loser. Top Fuel dragsters can do 0 to 60 in ~0.8 seconds and can do a quarter mile in less than 5 seconds. There's no comparison here. But the Cybertruck has an insane amount of torque, 10x beyond the equivalent ICE vehicle. It can tow, that's for sure.
    - yreg 3y ago
      I see, it depends on what you consider a 'good lap'. I expect it might be able to do Nurburgring faster than many cars I consider nimble. But I also don't think that 0 to 60 in 2.6s is 'a loser'. Cars that take twice as much feel already very fast to me.
      - xcv123 3y ago
        By "loser" I only meant by comparison with the best ICE in that category of pure drag racing. It's definitely not a loser, but it is a "loser" versus ICE. I'm not saying the Cybertruck is shit. It's a torque monster and I want one. But it will struggle with cornering because of its 6800 pound kerb weight which is double the 911 kerb weight. Too heavy, can't compete. What's most impressive to me is they figured out how to make flat body panels on the Cybertruck without warping (which would ruin the aesthetics). It would look cheap if they didn't get that right.
        kortilla 3y ago
        Comparing it with ICE engines that aren’t street legal misses the point.
        xcv123 3y ago
        Try it with the most illegal electric vehicle. Won't compete with Top Fuel dragsters. Fundamental physical limitations of batteries versus combustion. But the Cybertruck has 10x the torque of the equivalent ICE vehicle, so it can beat the 911 in a drag race, while towing a 911. Incredible. This is where it completely destroys ICE. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1730331223992472029 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1730331223992472029
        kortilla 3y ago
        You’re still missing the point! I don’t care about the performance of illegal vehicles and neither do 99.99% of other vehicle buyers.
- EnigmaFlare 3y ago
  > Weight in particular is hard to counteract because going around a corner relies on being able to redirect that mass using only the friction generated by the contact patch of the tires. Are you sure about that? Tyre friction force is at least to first approximation proportional to vehicle weight, and so is the force needed to turn at a particular radius and speed, so they balance independently of weight. I'd say weight doesn't necessarily make a difference to turning ability. CoM height yes, though.
mvdtnz 3y ago
Basic physics.

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