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You are free to do whatever you like. And others are free to do what they like. Which for most people includes making judgements about who you are based on the

You are free to do whatever you like. And others are free to do what they like. Which for most people includes making judgements about who you are based on the clothes you wear, the car you drive, the style of haircut etc. And buying a Cybertruck does imply that you either (a) agree with or (b) are ambivalent about Musk's behaviour.

nomel 3y ago
> Which for most people includes making judgements about who you are based on the clothes you wear, the car you drive, the style of haircut etc. But, it's important to understand that the people with some hairstyle aren't the assholes. That would be entirely on the people saying they're assholes for their choice of hair shaft placement. > And buying a Cybertruck does imply that you either (a) agree with or (b) are ambivalent about Musk's behaviour. I don't believe most Tesla owners are aware of this. Most that I know see an obvious choice in a product with no real competition.
- dragontamer 3y ago
  > I don't believe most Tesla owners are aware of this. Most that I know see an obvious choice in a product with no real competition. Cybertruck isn't even released yet, all the dates here are 2024. Meanwhile, Ford 150 Lightning and Rivian actually exist (and have existed for literally years). You can't even properly call the Cybertruck a competitor until its truly available. And the low-price model has a "might be released in 2025, we don't have the specs either" right there front and center. That's not competition, that's vaporware.
  - nomel 3y ago
    > Cybertruck isn't even released yet, all the dates here are 2024. I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that only the purchase of a Cybertruck is related to this "behavior", but not a Model 3/Y/X/S, when you said: > And buying a Cybertruck does imply that you either (a) agree with or (b) are ambivalent about Musk's behaviour. Is there some Cybertruck related behavior I'm not aware of? Maybe you could state the behavior that Cybertruck and/or Tesla owners are supposedly agreeing with/ambivalent about?
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      > real competition Cybertruck isn't real competition yet. EDIT: Anyone who is seriously considering a vehicle in this form factor is looking at F150 Lightning and/or Rivian right now. The $61k Cybertruck has a "maybe by 2025" date stamped right there, and the $80k Cybertruck says "2024" at the earliest, with no actual month specified. I think we're all assuming that's "January 2024", but... none of us actually know that. If GM Silverado's EV comes into widespread production/release before Cybertruck its just going to be that much more hilarious. ------------ The _ONLY_ reason to consider Cybertruck is because you're into Elon's reality distortion field IMO. Anyone who needed a truck this year or last year already got one. And anyone thinking of one this month, or next month (barely: December 2023) ain't looking at Cybertruck either. Being a Cybertruck fan right now is about trusting Elon and saying "Yeah, I think he's still got this", despite all the other crap he's been doing this year. At least Model X / Model 3 / etc. etc. fans can say they bought the car before Elon went full tilt crazy with Twitter/X.
      - kortilla 3y ago
        > At least Model X / Model 3 / etc. etc. fans can say they bought the car before Elon went full tilt crazy with Twitter/X. The model 3 and Y sold incredibly well throughout the entire year long after the Twitter/X stuff. You’ll find out that most people don’t associate the cars with an endorsement for Elon outside of a small circle of internet outrage junkies. The ones that do tend to be quite hypocritically buying services and goods from companies that make use of outsourced poor working condition manufacturing (Apple/Samsung/Google). It’s only an “endorsement” when it’s someone else buying from a bad man and when you don’t want to buy. Presumably you’re also petitioning your representatives to cancel support for any SpaceX government contracts because you don’t want your tax dollars to fund SpaceX through NASA/NRO launch contracts?
        dragontamer 3y ago
        I'm making a car argument here. Whatever specs and price you thought the Cybertruck was was completely wrong. This is $20,000+ over the initially advertised price with -20% payload/towing capacity and we haven't even gotten to to 3rd party tests yet. There is no $40,000 truck with 500 mile range here. The specs have come in grossly under what was hyped, while being years too late. Why would anyone still be considering Cybertruck now? The vaporware even continues for a couple more months since we still don't have a published start of sales date. ---------- If we get rid of specs and the promises/hype made, what is left is just politics and/or trust in Elon. And you have to get rid of specs to be pro-Cybertruck now because F150 Lightning is available, cheaper and well reviewed.
- herewego 3y ago
  > I don't believe most Tesla owners are aware of this. Most that I know see an obvious choice in a product with no real competition. We are quite aware and there is plenty of competition now. A lot of us are canceling orders after being burned by Tesla policies, poor customer service, poor vehicle quality, unmet commitments, fantasy autopilot capabilities, etc.
- sidibe 3y ago
  It's just a heuristic I'm not gonna judge someone solely based on it but yeah seeing someone drive up in their Cybertruck won't give me the best of first impressions. > I don't believe most Tesla owners are aware of this. Most that I know see an obvious choice in a product with no real competition. Model 3 is a weaker heuristic because there was less competition at the time and less people knew about who Elon really was, but if you are driving a cybertruck I can't help but assume you're a sucker or it's some kind of political statement
  - nomel 3y ago
    My dude, wtf is up with your comment history?
kcb 3y ago
Sure but the person judging the clothes you wear, the car you drive, the style of haircut etc. certainly is silly to try to make themselves the non-asshole in this story.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  It depends if the clothes in question involve things like a t-shirt that says "I endorse hateful, anti-semetic conspiracy theories". In that case, the wearer would be the asshole, and the observer not.
- taurath 3y ago
  I think they’re judging you for your choices rather than the clothing itself. People express their opinions all the time in what they purchase or how the express themselves. Should we be blind to it?
starcraft2wol 3y ago
> And buying a Cybertruck does imply that you either (a) agree with or (b) are ambivalent about Musk's behaviour. Do you do a regular check on the CEOs of all the products you buy?
- operatingthetan 3y ago
  Other companies' CEOs haven't intentionally intertwined their politics and their public image in quite the same way Musk has.
  - starcraft2wol 3y ago
    Ah so it's about public image and reputation, not harm.
    - operatingthetan 3y ago
      I don't see any mention of harm in this sub-thread.
      - deleted 3y ago
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      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

nomel 3y ago

> Which for most people includes making judgements about who you are based on the clothes you wear, the car you drive, the style of haircut etc. But, it's important to understand that the people with some hairstyle aren't the assholes. That would be entirely on the people saying they're assholes for their choice of hair shaft placement. > And buying a Cybertruck does imply that you either (a) agree with or (b) are ambivalent about Musk's behaviour. I don't believe most Tesla owners are aware of this. Most that I know see an obvious choice in a product with no real competition.

dragontamer 3y ago
> I don't believe most Tesla owners are aware of this. Most that I know see an obvious choice in a product with no real competition. Cybertruck isn't even released yet, all the dates here are 2024. Meanwhile, Ford 150 Lightning and Rivian actually exist (and have existed for literally years). You can't even properly call the Cybertruck a competitor until its truly available. And the low-price model has a "might be released in 2025, we don't have the specs either" right there front and center. That's not competition, that's vaporware.
- nomel 3y ago
  > Cybertruck isn't even released yet, all the dates here are 2024. I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that only the purchase of a Cybertruck is related to this "behavior", but not a Model 3/Y/X/S, when you said: > And buying a Cybertruck does imply that you either (a) agree with or (b) are ambivalent about Musk's behaviour. Is there some Cybertruck related behavior I'm not aware of? Maybe you could state the behavior that Cybertruck and/or Tesla owners are supposedly agreeing with/ambivalent about?
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    > real competition Cybertruck isn't real competition yet. EDIT: Anyone who is seriously considering a vehicle in this form factor is looking at F150 Lightning and/or Rivian right now. The $61k Cybertruck has a "maybe by 2025" date stamped right there, and the $80k Cybertruck says "2024" at the earliest, with no actual month specified. I think we're all assuming that's "January 2024", but... none of us actually know that. If GM Silverado's EV comes into widespread production/release before Cybertruck its just going to be that much more hilarious. ------------ The _ONLY_ reason to consider Cybertruck is because you're into Elon's reality distortion field IMO. Anyone who needed a truck this year or last year already got one. And anyone thinking of one this month, or next month (barely: December 2023) ain't looking at Cybertruck either. Being a Cybertruck fan right now is about trusting Elon and saying "Yeah, I think he's still got this", despite all the other crap he's been doing this year. At least Model X / Model 3 / etc. etc. fans can say they bought the car before Elon went full tilt crazy with Twitter/X.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      > At least Model X / Model 3 / etc. etc. fans can say they bought the car before Elon went full tilt crazy with Twitter/X. The model 3 and Y sold incredibly well throughout the entire year long after the Twitter/X stuff. You’ll find out that most people don’t associate the cars with an endorsement for Elon outside of a small circle of internet outrage junkies. The ones that do tend to be quite hypocritically buying services and goods from companies that make use of outsourced poor working condition manufacturing (Apple/Samsung/Google). It’s only an “endorsement” when it’s someone else buying from a bad man and when you don’t want to buy. Presumably you’re also petitioning your representatives to cancel support for any SpaceX government contracts because you don’t want your tax dollars to fund SpaceX through NASA/NRO launch contracts?
      - dragontamer 3y ago
        I'm making a car argument here. Whatever specs and price you thought the Cybertruck was was completely wrong. This is $20,000+ over the initially advertised price with -20% payload/towing capacity and we haven't even gotten to to 3rd party tests yet. There is no $40,000 truck with 500 mile range here. The specs have come in grossly under what was hyped, while being years too late. Why would anyone still be considering Cybertruck now? The vaporware even continues for a couple more months since we still don't have a published start of sales date. ---------- If we get rid of specs and the promises/hype made, what is left is just politics and/or trust in Elon. And you have to get rid of specs to be pro-Cybertruck now because F150 Lightning is available, cheaper and well reviewed.
herewego 3y ago
> I don't believe most Tesla owners are aware of this. Most that I know see an obvious choice in a product with no real competition. We are quite aware and there is plenty of competition now. A lot of us are canceling orders after being burned by Tesla policies, poor customer service, poor vehicle quality, unmet commitments, fantasy autopilot capabilities, etc.
sidibe 3y ago
It's just a heuristic I'm not gonna judge someone solely based on it but yeah seeing someone drive up in their Cybertruck won't give me the best of first impressions. > I don't believe most Tesla owners are aware of this. Most that I know see an obvious choice in a product with no real competition. Model 3 is a weaker heuristic because there was less competition at the time and less people knew about who Elon really was, but if you are driving a cybertruck I can't help but assume you're a sucker or it's some kind of political statement
- nomel 3y ago
  My dude, wtf is up with your comment history?

kcb 3y ago

Sure but the person judging the clothes you wear, the car you drive, the style of haircut etc. certainly is silly to try to make themselves the non-asshole in this story.

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
It depends if the clothes in question involve things like a t-shirt that says "I endorse hateful, anti-semetic conspiracy theories". In that case, the wearer would be the asshole, and the observer not.
taurath 3y ago
I think they’re judging you for your choices rather than the clothing itself. People express their opinions all the time in what they purchase or how the express themselves. Should we be blind to it?

starcraft2wol 3y ago

> And buying a Cybertruck does imply that you either (a) agree with or (b) are ambivalent about Musk's behaviour. Do you do a regular check on the CEOs of all the products you buy?

operatingthetan 3y ago
Other companies' CEOs haven't intentionally intertwined their politics and their public image in quite the same way Musk has.
- starcraft2wol 3y ago
  Ah so it's about public image and reputation, not harm.
  - operatingthetan 3y ago
    I don't see any mention of harm in this sub-thread.
    - deleted 3y ago
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    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]