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This is so bleak. I hope artists get enough legal protection in the future to stop ghouls from doing this to their work.

by __loam 3y ago

ChatGTP 3y ago
They won’t. I wonder if there will still be demand for original content though because it creates a connection. A communication of what others have to say ?
matheusmoreira 3y ago
I hope not. I want AI to hammer in the final nails into the coffin of intellectual property so we can finally bury it. I want this technology to be so ubiquitous it cannot be controlled. I want them to give up on controlling things with such nonsense "legal protections", society should change permanently instead.
- __loam 3y ago
  In the absence of a legal framework, I hope enough people recognize that scooping someone else's work into some kind of grotesque anime sausage machine is super shitty to do without the input of the author, and the people doing it get ruthlessly mocked. Most anime production involves the input of and express permission from the author. Imagine someone doing this to show us "their" ending of berserk, for example. Just utterly disrespectful to Miura's legacy. The man dedicated his life to his art and you reinterpreted it like an ass hole because you lack patience and demand more content at the expense of all artistic agency. Complete trash.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    > someone else's work Just a number really. That's all intellectual work is: a number. All numbers already exist, humans just discover them. I just can't take it seriously, this notion that intellectual work is somehow "special" and deserving of "protections". To me it's as delusional as trying to own numbers. > input of the author Why do you need somebody's permission to do math with numbers? Makes no sense whatsoever. > Imagine someone doing this to show us "their" ending of berserk No need to imagine it when fanfiction.net exists. AI will make it even easier.
    - DeIlliad 3y ago
      This "just math" argument is so reductionist and unhelpful.
      - matheusmoreira 3y ago
        And yet it's true. Literally cannot be refuted. It's a fact that all information is a number.
        catapart 3y ago
        Bruh. I'm with you on IP being useless, but insisting on something being a "fact" is meaningless. It's a fact that everything can be represented in binary. You can identify every knowable concept as either "cat" or "not cat". That's a fact. Now... who cares? What does that being a fact mean? It means nothing. It's not useful. It doesn't prove a point any more than what you're saying does. All information is a number, that's a fact. Okay. Now... so WHAT? The charge here is that some public information deserves protection. You disagree with that but, again, who cares? Prove why your opinion on that is relevant to any other human being, or engage with your irrelevance all by yourself. On the "protect public info" side, we can say that things like your social security number needs to be necessarily public, but we need to be able to stop people from using it however they want. There are indexing reasons for that. There are medical reasons for that. There are (yes, far too many) financial reasons for that. And if you don't like that example, let's try one more directly applicable with a creative example: trade marks are public info. But if we let every person do whatever they wanted with a trade mark, they lose the real, tangible value that they provide (iconography is foundational to how human brains efficiently interpret information). So pick you poison, but then engage with the actual poison; don't just wink behind smug tautologies. Tell us how, in your view, we can have a framework that provides the values that we get from IP, when we don't protect IP, as a concept. Because, buddy, I've been longing for, and working towards, that kind of framework since I figured out how pathetically inept IP is at actually doing what it does.
        matheusmoreira 3y ago
  - hau 3y ago
    >disrespectful to Miura's legacy You mean highest form of flattery? Literally participating and reflecting, trying to recreate and reinterpret is how humans integrate, show acceptance, make it part of themselves and culture. His art is not sacred, nor is it absolutely original, nor is it made in isolation from the world. Miura's legacy is sharing his reinterpretation of whatever. For it to exist there must be less elitist underground bunkers full of sacred IP which we unable to think about, discuss and share our interpretations of.
    - __loam 3y ago
      Yeah this opinion sucks dude. Have some respect.
      - matheusmoreira 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor
  - stale2002 3y ago
    Fair use and transforming other people's work is completely accepted in the creative industry. But, of course, when techies do the same thing that creatives have done for decades (IE, make transformative fan art), well now thats not fair apparently. > you reinterpreted it Reinterpretations, fan art, and "what if" scenarios are completely common in creative industries. People build whole careers on transforming others work.
- an_aparallel 3y ago
  stem splitting makes me feel that way - i feel like legal music protection is just going to be turned on its head...when people can now sample JUST jimmy's guitar, just cobhams drums...JUST elton's piano...i wonder if its already happening under our noses?
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    No one is listening to Jimmy's guitar, they're listening to rubbish on TikTok.
owenpalmer 3y ago
There is no amount of legal protection that can prevent 1 individual from generating billions of movies based on an artists style. It's time embrace what the act of creating art will mean in the future. You can't just regulate away the driving force automation.
- __loam 3y ago
  Whenever someone says something like this, my immediate reaction is to think they don't understand the economics of media or the attention economy. Productivity alone isn't a good metric.
  - owenpalmer 3y ago
    Ok, what do I not understand about the economics of media or the attention economy? Expand on your point instead of blankly stating that I'm wrong.
boppo1 3y ago
Artist here. I can hardly protect my work from ghouls as it is. If I want to work for a company as an illustrator, it's like pulling teeth to get my personal work separated from their IP. Many contracts I've seen were 'you get salary, we get everything you make'. Hell I've seen a contract try to claim my knowledge of niche animation tools was company property.
- __loam 3y ago
  Not saying existant frameworks are the ideal, I just think there should be a reasonable middle ground between corporate intellectual property hellscape And corporate we steal all your work to feed our ai sausage machine hellscape.
dclowd9901 3y ago
It is. People who say AI won’t kick people to the curb permanently are either completely ignorant or selling it.

This is so bleak. I hope artists get enough legal protection in the future to stop ghouls from doing this to their work.

by __loam 3y ago

This is so bleak. I hope artists get enough legal protection in the future to stop ghouls from doing this to their work.

ChatGTP 3y ago

They won’t. I wonder if there will still be demand for original content though because it creates a connection. A communication of what others have to say ?

matheusmoreira 3y ago

I hope not. I want AI to hammer in the final nails into the coffin of intellectual property so we can finally bury it. I want this technology to be so ubiquitous it cannot be controlled. I want them to give up on controlling things with such nonsense "legal protections", society should change permanently instead.

__loam 3y ago
In the absence of a legal framework, I hope enough people recognize that scooping someone else's work into some kind of grotesque anime sausage machine is super shitty to do without the input of the author, and the people doing it get ruthlessly mocked. Most anime production involves the input of and express permission from the author. Imagine someone doing this to show us "their" ending of berserk, for example. Just utterly disrespectful to Miura's legacy. The man dedicated his life to his art and you reinterpreted it like an ass hole because you lack patience and demand more content at the expense of all artistic agency. Complete trash.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  > someone else's work Just a number really. That's all intellectual work is: a number. All numbers already exist, humans just discover them. I just can't take it seriously, this notion that intellectual work is somehow "special" and deserving of "protections". To me it's as delusional as trying to own numbers. > input of the author Why do you need somebody's permission to do math with numbers? Makes no sense whatsoever. > Imagine someone doing this to show us "their" ending of berserk No need to imagine it when fanfiction.net exists. AI will make it even easier.
  - DeIlliad 3y ago
    This "just math" argument is so reductionist and unhelpful.
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      And yet it's true. Literally cannot be refuted. It's a fact that all information is a number.
      - catapart 3y ago
        Bruh. I'm with you on IP being useless, but insisting on something being a "fact" is meaningless. It's a fact that everything can be represented in binary. You can identify every knowable concept as either "cat" or "not cat". That's a fact. Now... who cares? What does that being a fact mean? It means nothing. It's not useful. It doesn't prove a point any more than what you're saying does. All information is a number, that's a fact. Okay. Now... so WHAT? The charge here is that some public information deserves protection. You disagree with that but, again, who cares? Prove why your opinion on that is relevant to any other human being, or engage with your irrelevance all by yourself. On the "protect public info" side, we can say that things like your social security number needs to be necessarily public, but we need to be able to stop people from using it however they want. There are indexing reasons for that. There are medical reasons for that. There are (yes, far too many) financial reasons for that. And if you don't like that example, let's try one more directly applicable with a creative example: trade marks are public info. But if we let every person do whatever they wanted with a trade mark, they lose the real, tangible value that they provide (iconography is foundational to how human brains efficiently interpret information). So pick you poison, but then engage with the actual poison; don't just wink behind smug tautologies. Tell us how, in your view, we can have a framework that provides the values that we get from IP, when we don't protect IP, as a concept. Because, buddy, I've been longing for, and working towards, that kind of framework since I figured out how pathetically inept IP is at actually doing what it does.
        matheusmoreira 3y ago
- hau 3y ago
  >disrespectful to Miura's legacy You mean highest form of flattery? Literally participating and reflecting, trying to recreate and reinterpret is how humans integrate, show acceptance, make it part of themselves and culture. His art is not sacred, nor is it absolutely original, nor is it made in isolation from the world. Miura's legacy is sharing his reinterpretation of whatever. For it to exist there must be less elitist underground bunkers full of sacred IP which we unable to think about, discuss and share our interpretations of.
  - __loam 3y ago
    Yeah this opinion sucks dude. Have some respect.
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeathOfTheAuthor
- stale2002 3y ago
  Fair use and transforming other people's work is completely accepted in the creative industry. But, of course, when techies do the same thing that creatives have done for decades (IE, make transformative fan art), well now thats not fair apparently. > you reinterpreted it Reinterpretations, fan art, and "what if" scenarios are completely common in creative industries. People build whole careers on transforming others work.
an_aparallel 3y ago
stem splitting makes me feel that way - i feel like legal music protection is just going to be turned on its head...when people can now sample JUST jimmy's guitar, just cobhams drums...JUST elton's piano...i wonder if its already happening under our noses?
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  No one is listening to Jimmy's guitar, they're listening to rubbish on TikTok.

owenpalmer 3y ago

There is no amount of legal protection that can prevent 1 individual from generating billions of movies based on an artists style. It's time embrace what the act of creating art will mean in the future. You can't just regulate away the driving force automation.

__loam 3y ago
Whenever someone says something like this, my immediate reaction is to think they don't understand the economics of media or the attention economy. Productivity alone isn't a good metric.
- owenpalmer 3y ago
  Ok, what do I not understand about the economics of media or the attention economy? Expand on your point instead of blankly stating that I'm wrong.

boppo1 3y ago

Artist here. I can hardly protect my work from ghouls as it is. If I want to work for a company as an illustrator, it's like pulling teeth to get my personal work separated from their IP. Many contracts I've seen were 'you get salary, we get everything you make'. Hell I've seen a contract try to claim my knowledge of niche animation tools was company property.

__loam 3y ago
Not saying existant frameworks are the ideal, I just think there should be a reasonable middle ground between corporate intellectual property hellscape And corporate we steal all your work to feed our ai sausage machine hellscape.

dclowd9901 3y ago

It is. People who say AI won’t kick people to the curb permanently are either completely ignorant or selling it.