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For blogging to form communities (again'-ish), we're going to need new protocols. I don't think http is the future for growth. The nostalgic internet was a "com

For blogging to form communities (again'-ish), we're going to need new protocols. I don't think http is the future for growth. The nostalgic internet was a "community," but more because it was a scene made up of other scenes, which each had bars to entry, signalling costs, social proof, status and competence hierarchies, and ultimately, real social networks. Imo, the old internet never disappeared, it just migrated to git. What we're probably overlooking is that any activity where people can collaborate to make something together at scale is basically magic. I don't think people will go "back" to blogs because the form will need another zero-to-one moment where people collaborate with words to discover something new.

jauntywundrkind 3y ago
I don't have any use why http would be the barrier. Works for matrix, works for ActivityPub, works for seemingly whatever. I was really looking forward to http2 letting servers push resources to open connections, but alas the browser implementers have yet to get around to extending fetch to enable push observability. I love the idea of new chat messages coming in as http resourced the page just sees. But even without that nice to have, I want real contentions and real argumentation around how or where http isn't enough. It seems so greatly malleable, can be adapted to serve seemingly any scheme. Looking at grpc for example, it's kind of stunning how little has to be added to make a bidirectional streaming rpc system.
- motohagiography 3y ago
  The issue with http is it's interdicted everywhere, requires DNS, TCP, is stateful, and it's tied to a client (browser) that is completely captured and represents an experience controlled by a few organizations. I don't know that streaming is the way for the kinds of relationships and scenes that actually grow.
  - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
    Https is not interdicted. UDP quic and http3 are stateless. Http is used myriad places outside the browser. You can send whatever you want over http. I hate it but Flutter is showing you can use the web as a low level platform & render however you want, disregarding the standards processes (which are open & democratic and participative, imo).
    - motohagiography 3y ago
      There is no subculture I would trust a website to join today. Thanks to capture on mobile platforms, the web is homogenized. Few remember that a number of twitter competitors all got banned from mobile app stores under the pretext of potential racism and a real fear of breaking up an oligopoly. The history ISP and corporate proxies and caches would disagree with the statement https isn't interdicted, albeit TLS 1.3 has mitigated that for the most part, but there are still a variety of network security tools that require installing a root cert. Browsers are overcomplicated for anything new to grow out of them, and mobile is a walled garden. New culture will need new tech.
      - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
        If Twitter competitors kept getting their apps banned, that, to me, would stress the need for the web. Which mobile platforms don't control and block. These sites would have been fine fine if they had been PWAs. The web continues to be the best chance to escape the walled garden. I agree we need new tech, but those standards and protocols can grow atop http and yes IMHO html too.
JohnFen 3y ago
> it just migrated to git It migrated to a version control program? I don't understand what you mean here...
- motohagiography 3y ago
  All the valuable collaboration and ideas on the internet occur in git. The rest is entertainment.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    I still don't understand. Are you talking about github rather than git? If so, I don't agree. I don't use github (or any of the other git-based collab sites) but do a lot of collaboration and am exposed to lots of ideas.
    - motohagiography 3y ago
      If I'm interpreting correctly, you don't understand but you are sure you don't agree, and you do some kind of collaboration without an example and say you are exposed to a lot of ideas without examples either. I'm sorry, what is the substance of your comment?

jauntywundrkind 3y ago

I don't have any use why http would be the barrier. Works for matrix, works for ActivityPub, works for seemingly whatever. I was really looking forward to http2 letting servers push resources to open connections, but alas the browser implementers have yet to get around to extending fetch to enable push observability. I love the idea of new chat messages coming in as http resourced the page just sees. But even without that nice to have, I want real contentions and real argumentation around how or where http isn't enough. It seems so greatly malleable, can be adapted to serve seemingly any scheme. Looking at grpc for example, it's kind of stunning how little has to be added to make a bidirectional streaming rpc system.

motohagiography 3y ago
The issue with http is it's interdicted everywhere, requires DNS, TCP, is stateful, and it's tied to a client (browser) that is completely captured and represents an experience controlled by a few organizations. I don't know that streaming is the way for the kinds of relationships and scenes that actually grow.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  Https is not interdicted. UDP quic and http3 are stateless. Http is used myriad places outside the browser. You can send whatever you want over http. I hate it but Flutter is showing you can use the web as a low level platform & render however you want, disregarding the standards processes (which are open & democratic and participative, imo).
  - motohagiography 3y ago
    There is no subculture I would trust a website to join today. Thanks to capture on mobile platforms, the web is homogenized. Few remember that a number of twitter competitors all got banned from mobile app stores under the pretext of potential racism and a real fear of breaking up an oligopoly. The history ISP and corporate proxies and caches would disagree with the statement https isn't interdicted, albeit TLS 1.3 has mitigated that for the most part, but there are still a variety of network security tools that require installing a root cert. Browsers are overcomplicated for anything new to grow out of them, and mobile is a walled garden. New culture will need new tech.
    - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
      If Twitter competitors kept getting their apps banned, that, to me, would stress the need for the web. Which mobile platforms don't control and block. These sites would have been fine fine if they had been PWAs. The web continues to be the best chance to escape the walled garden. I agree we need new tech, but those standards and protocols can grow atop http and yes IMHO html too.

JohnFen 3y ago

> it just migrated to git It migrated to a version control program? I don't understand what you mean here...

motohagiography 3y ago
All the valuable collaboration and ideas on the internet occur in git. The rest is entertainment.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I still don't understand. Are you talking about github rather than git? If so, I don't agree. I don't use github (or any of the other git-based collab sites) but do a lot of collaboration and am exposed to lots of ideas.
  - motohagiography 3y ago
    If I'm interpreting correctly, you don't understand but you are sure you don't agree, and you do some kind of collaboration without an example and say you are exposed to a lot of ideas without examples either. I'm sorry, what is the substance of your comment?