4 ms·

> That said, there are different failure modes for purely technical people not understanding business. A common one, I think, is technical people thinking mana

by gary_0 3y ago

> That said, there are different failure modes for purely technical people not understanding business. A common one, I think, is technical people thinking management or business expertise is easy (or even beneath them) because they're so smart in other areas--and any problems they might have can surely be solved with the same tools they use to solve engineering problems, right? Which is kind of the flip side of the attitude of the kind of nontechnical founders we're talking about. Another thing I'm facing myself (as a technical person) is when I've successfully dipped a toe into a management role, I was lucky enough that the people I was leading were all also technical people whose personalities were mostly in line with mine. But I've had to remind myself that if I put myself in a leadership position again, it won't always be that simple...

ethbr1 3y ago
The biggest business gap seems to be assuming other people won't screw you over, given enough money on the table and the opportunity. I assume most MBAs already know this. Lots of technical people learn the hard way.
- jjav 3y ago
  Yes, this. I've been in many startups but only once as a founder. I was the technical one, the only one with deep expertise in the core business area of the startup. Well, my title was founder. All the other founders were on the board, I was not. All the other founders controlled budget, I did not. So really, despite the words on the offer letter I was just an employee. The founder title granted me the right to work 90 hour weeks with no help and no support and no budget to hire help. At least didn't waste too many years on that one. Learn from me. Spend some of your money up front and hire a lawyer with tons of experience in startups to guide you through contract negotiations and if the company balks at your (lawyer-assisted) terms that's your giant red flag to run very far away.
  - TuringNYC 3y ago
    >> Well, my title was founder. All the other founders were on the board, I was not. All the other founders controlled budget, I did not. So really, despite the words on the offer letter I was just an employee. The founder title granted me the right to work 90 hour weeks with no help and no support and no budget to hire help. >> At least didn't waste too many years on that one. Firstly, i'm sorry to hear about your situation. I'm curious why you didnt negotiate harder some time into this. It seems to be you held all the cards. I'm fascinated by the number of "business co-founders" who think they can cut a 25k check to some random person on eLance/Upwork and replace technical co-founders. My recommendation would be to say -- sure, try that. Lets talk in 6mo if you still need me, but i'll set the terms at that point. 6mo is about when most non-technical people realize they have no code in source control and some random person overseas now owns their company effectively.
    - jjav 3y ago
      > I'm curious why you didnt negotiate harder some time into this. I guess it comes down to being a techy engineer that doesn't know how to even begin to negotiate confrontationally. Thus my thought that if I ever consider such a role again I'll find a startup employment lawyer to tell me what to do.
    - twelve40 3y ago
      I've dealt with someone like that once but if they are any good they will never sit around and wait for 6 months. That person hustled very hard, cycled through several upwork teams and CTOs. through ruthless arm twisting kept all the code and underpaid everybody, finally settled on a CTO with 0 self-esteem and slave terms, and ended up building a rather successful company by now.
- rectang 3y ago
  Competing with that naivete is the great delusion of technical people that "If we build it they will come." (Speaking as an technical person who constantly meditates on that problem.)
- gary_0 3y ago
  > given enough money on the table and the opportunity. In my personal experience it was never even that much money. Some people just really want to feel like they've pulled a fast one, even if all they really end up doing is wasting everyone's time. As a nerd who is generally not motivated by Machiavellian shenanigans, I have a hard time seeing these kinds of predators coming.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    > I have a hard time seeing these kinds of predators coming. Just imagine other people's value functions are exclusively "What's good for me?" At worst, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

by gary_0 3y ago

ethbr1 3y ago

The biggest business gap seems to be assuming other people won't screw you over, given enough money on the table and the opportunity. I assume most MBAs already know this. Lots of technical people learn the hard way.

jjav 3y ago
Yes, this. I've been in many startups but only once as a founder. I was the technical one, the only one with deep expertise in the core business area of the startup. Well, my title was founder. All the other founders were on the board, I was not. All the other founders controlled budget, I did not. So really, despite the words on the offer letter I was just an employee. The founder title granted me the right to work 90 hour weeks with no help and no support and no budget to hire help. At least didn't waste too many years on that one. Learn from me. Spend some of your money up front and hire a lawyer with tons of experience in startups to guide you through contract negotiations and if the company balks at your (lawyer-assisted) terms that's your giant red flag to run very far away.
- TuringNYC 3y ago
  >> Well, my title was founder. All the other founders were on the board, I was not. All the other founders controlled budget, I did not. So really, despite the words on the offer letter I was just an employee. The founder title granted me the right to work 90 hour weeks with no help and no support and no budget to hire help. >> At least didn't waste too many years on that one. Firstly, i'm sorry to hear about your situation. I'm curious why you didnt negotiate harder some time into this. It seems to be you held all the cards. I'm fascinated by the number of "business co-founders" who think they can cut a 25k check to some random person on eLance/Upwork and replace technical co-founders. My recommendation would be to say -- sure, try that. Lets talk in 6mo if you still need me, but i'll set the terms at that point. 6mo is about when most non-technical people realize they have no code in source control and some random person overseas now owns their company effectively.
  - jjav 3y ago
    > I'm curious why you didnt negotiate harder some time into this. I guess it comes down to being a techy engineer that doesn't know how to even begin to negotiate confrontationally. Thus my thought that if I ever consider such a role again I'll find a startup employment lawyer to tell me what to do.
  - twelve40 3y ago
    I've dealt with someone like that once but if they are any good they will never sit around and wait for 6 months. That person hustled very hard, cycled through several upwork teams and CTOs. through ruthless arm twisting kept all the code and underpaid everybody, finally settled on a CTO with 0 self-esteem and slave terms, and ended up building a rather successful company by now.
rectang 3y ago
Competing with that naivete is the great delusion of technical people that "If we build it they will come." (Speaking as an technical person who constantly meditates on that problem.)
gary_0 3y ago
> given enough money on the table and the opportunity. In my personal experience it was never even that much money. Some people just really want to feel like they've pulled a fast one, even if all they really end up doing is wasting everyone's time. As a nerd who is generally not motivated by Machiavellian shenanigans, I have a hard time seeing these kinds of predators coming.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  > I have a hard time seeing these kinds of predators coming. Just imagine other people's value functions are exclusively "What's good for me?" At worst, you'll be pleasantly surprised.