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I'm not sure that's specific to the US, and I don't even think that particular teaching method has been used here in Quebec, yet we still see broadly similar li

I'm not sure that's specific to the US, and I don't even think that particular teaching method has been used here in Quebec, yet we still see broadly similar literacy rates and levels. Last I checked US students rank well and are near the top in most education global rankings, so I think bad education is more of a global problem than Americans think it is. Maybe that's outdated though, I'll do my research.

Aerbil313 3y ago
That’s definitely outdated. Literacy rate of my “third world” country is %16 higher than US atm.
- Retric 3y ago
  Be careful trying to compare countries or even historical numbers when standards vary. The US has a 99% literacy rate based on some metrics, but as often happens when metrics become useless the people tracking them raise the bar. Thus the US’s “Level 1” literacy rate, which represents being able to follow basic written instructions, was 92% in 2014. But in 2020 the standard changed yet again to: “54% of adults in the United States have English prose literacy below the 6th-grade level.” Noticeably being literate in a non English language suddenly doesn’t count, the prose at 6th grade level is also higher than it’s been in the past. Or as Wikipedia puts it: In many nations, the ability to read a simple sentence suffices as literacy, and was the previous standard for the U.S. The definition of literacy has changed greatly; the term is presently defined as the ability to use printed and written information to function in society, to achieve one's goals, and to develop one's knowledge and potential.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  What's the functional literacy rate though?
gumby 3y ago
> Last I checked US students rank well and are near the top in most education global rankings, so I think bad education is more of a global problem than Americans think it is. US is at the bottom of the OECD PISA rankings (as it is with life expectency too), though on a global basis you're right (better than Morocco or Indonesia on both criteria). Shockingly Australia has fallen quite a bit from the initial PISA study where it was ranked #4, now almost as bad as USA. https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/pisa-scores-by-country https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/pisa-scores-by-country
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  Honestly what surprised me the most from your very informative link was that France is lower than the US! I'm probably biased but I've always considered the French education system to be quite rigorous and well rounded, with a few different education paths to fit different student profiles from a pretty early stage. Especially compared to canada, which in my experience has a rather weak and rigid curriculum. (Though I dislike the way french and European higher education in general works. You're basically boxed in to your specific domain or degree that you often don't even really choose and changing or switching careers is almost impossible. The choices you make in high school basically define what you can even study in, and thus what you can do for the rest of your life. I think that's one thing the US does super well, even more so considering that degrees are less important there in the first place.)
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    > You're basically boxed in to your specific domain or degree that you often don't even really choose and changing or switching careers is almost impossible. This was true 50 years ago but hasn't been true since the 90's or so. France may well be the exception in this, but then again, France is an exception in many ways.
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      Isn't it still true in Germany? With the different high school tiers that can even make it impossible to enroll for a university degree? Though you are right that I shouldn't say that Europe as a whole is like Germany or France even if it's sometime easy to assume so haha.

Aerbil313 3y ago

That’s definitely outdated. Literacy rate of my “third world” country is %16 higher than US atm.

Retric 3y ago
Be careful trying to compare countries or even historical numbers when standards vary. The US has a 99% literacy rate based on some metrics, but as often happens when metrics become useless the people tracking them raise the bar. Thus the US’s “Level 1” literacy rate, which represents being able to follow basic written instructions, was 92% in 2014. But in 2020 the standard changed yet again to: “54% of adults in the United States have English prose literacy below the 6th-grade level.” Noticeably being literate in a non English language suddenly doesn’t count, the prose at 6th grade level is also higher than it’s been in the past. Or as Wikipedia puts it: In many nations, the ability to read a simple sentence suffices as literacy, and was the previous standard for the U.S. The definition of literacy has changed greatly; the term is presently defined as the ability to use printed and written information to function in society, to achieve one's goals, and to develop one's knowledge and potential.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
mardifoufs 3y ago
What's the functional literacy rate though?

gumby 3y ago

> Last I checked US students rank well and are near the top in most education global rankings, so I think bad education is more of a global problem than Americans think it is. US is at the bottom of the OECD PISA rankings (as it is with life expectency too), though on a global basis you're right (better than Morocco or Indonesia on both criteria). Shockingly Australia has fallen quite a bit from the initial PISA study where it was ranked #4, now almost as bad as USA. https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/pisa-scores-by-country https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/pisa-scores-by-country

mardifoufs 3y ago
Honestly what surprised me the most from your very informative link was that France is lower than the US! I'm probably biased but I've always considered the French education system to be quite rigorous and well rounded, with a few different education paths to fit different student profiles from a pretty early stage. Especially compared to canada, which in my experience has a rather weak and rigid curriculum. (Though I dislike the way french and European higher education in general works. You're basically boxed in to your specific domain or degree that you often don't even really choose and changing or switching careers is almost impossible. The choices you make in high school basically define what you can even study in, and thus what you can do for the rest of your life. I think that's one thing the US does super well, even more so considering that degrees are less important there in the first place.)
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > You're basically boxed in to your specific domain or degree that you often don't even really choose and changing or switching careers is almost impossible. This was true 50 years ago but hasn't been true since the 90's or so. France may well be the exception in this, but then again, France is an exception in many ways.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    Isn't it still true in Germany? With the different high school tiers that can even make it impossible to enroll for a university degree? Though you are right that I shouldn't say that Europe as a whole is like Germany or France even if it's sometime easy to assume so haha.