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> the bigger issue is the population of homeless that refuse to go because they are not of sound mind and are not thinking rationally. This is an emotionally a

> the bigger issue is the population of homeless that refuse to go because they are not of sound mind and are not thinking rationally. This is an emotionally appealing explanation for many - "we can't help them, they're just crazy" - but I've had a hard time finding evidence for it. Do you know of some study that supports this idea?

sylens 3y ago
I don't have a study at hand to provide, but I've lived in a major US city for 17 years and when this topic inevitably comes up for debate in public forums, somebody asks why we can't just force these people to go into the shelters or housing that already exist. Most of the time, local governments have their hands tied.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Also, at least in my area, there isn't nearly enough shelter space to accommodate them. The number of beds available is less than 10% of the number of homeless people.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    A local city did a more thorough than usual count of local homeless to better asses what the situation was and improve some resources. They expected about 50 homeless people, give or take. They counted over 250.
JohnFen 3y ago
I don't think the message is "we can't help them", I think the message is "those people need a different, additional kind of help". I have no study that supports what I'm about to say, so anecdata and all that... but I've been working with the homeless on the street for years now. My observations with this particular area is that about 3/4ths of them have crippling psychological/emotional problems that are the primary cause of their homelessness.
- verall 3y ago
  There is a large population of "invisible" homeless who do not live on the street (so you wouldn't encounter them) but do not have stable housing. They live in cars, on friend's couches, and sometimes in tents or abandoned buildings. They are the easiest to help, but helping them does not help a city's "homelessness problem", because they are not the homeless that people see. They are the "unproblematic" homeless.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    Well, I do see and interact with the ones living in cars, tents, and abandoned buildings -- but you're right, the spectrum of homeless is wide, and I am limiting myself to a specific subset. I'm very well aware that the subset I'm not addressing do exist, though.
amanaplanacanal 3y ago
I can’t point you to it, but I have seen a survey that was done of homeless in one city. One third had untreated mental health problems. One third were substance addicted. I assume there was some overlap in those two groups but it wasn’t addressed in the numbers I saw.
- actuallyalys 3y ago
  Untreated mental illness and substance abuse problems could cause someone to be not of sound mind to the extent they irrationally refuse help, but they’re not synonymous with it.
actuallyalys 3y ago
To me the implausible claim is not that some homeless people are not of sound mind to the extent they refuse any and all help, but that there’s a significant number of them. It’s especially implausible given that homelessness varies so much by area and is linked to housing costs.
brvsft 3y ago
The study of me walking down the street and crossing paths with a homeless man throwing a brick into the street, chasing after it, and throwing it again, all while screaming obscenities to himself.

sylens 3y ago

I don't have a study at hand to provide, but I've lived in a major US city for 17 years and when this topic inevitably comes up for debate in public forums, somebody asks why we can't just force these people to go into the shelters or housing that already exist. Most of the time, local governments have their hands tied.

JohnFen 3y ago
Also, at least in my area, there isn't nearly enough shelter space to accommodate them. The number of beds available is less than 10% of the number of homeless people.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  A local city did a more thorough than usual count of local homeless to better asses what the situation was and improve some resources. They expected about 50 homeless people, give or take. They counted over 250.

JohnFen 3y ago

I don't think the message is "we can't help them", I think the message is "those people need a different, additional kind of help". I have no study that supports what I'm about to say, so anecdata and all that... but I've been working with the homeless on the street for years now. My observations with this particular area is that about 3/4ths of them have crippling psychological/emotional problems that are the primary cause of their homelessness.

verall 3y ago
There is a large population of "invisible" homeless who do not live on the street (so you wouldn't encounter them) but do not have stable housing. They live in cars, on friend's couches, and sometimes in tents or abandoned buildings. They are the easiest to help, but helping them does not help a city's "homelessness problem", because they are not the homeless that people see. They are the "unproblematic" homeless.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Well, I do see and interact with the ones living in cars, tents, and abandoned buildings -- but you're right, the spectrum of homeless is wide, and I am limiting myself to a specific subset. I'm very well aware that the subset I'm not addressing do exist, though.

amanaplanacanal 3y ago

I can’t point you to it, but I have seen a survey that was done of homeless in one city. One third had untreated mental health problems. One third were substance addicted. I assume there was some overlap in those two groups but it wasn’t addressed in the numbers I saw.

actuallyalys 3y ago
Untreated mental illness and substance abuse problems could cause someone to be not of sound mind to the extent they irrationally refuse help, but they’re not synonymous with it.

actuallyalys 3y ago

To me the implausible claim is not that some homeless people are not of sound mind to the extent they refuse any and all help, but that there’s a significant number of them. It’s especially implausible given that homelessness varies so much by area and is linked to housing costs.

brvsft 3y ago

The study of me walking down the street and crossing paths with a homeless man throwing a brick into the street, chasing after it, and throwing it again, all while screaming obscenities to himself.