4 ms·

>British road-crossings often will illuminate a 'WAIT' Some in the US (maybe when I was in DC?) will audibly say "WAIT" from when they're pressed until you can

by gs17 3y ago

>British road-crossings often will illuminate a 'WAIT' Some in the US (maybe when I was in DC?) will audibly say "WAIT" from when they're pressed until you can cross, sometimes also counting the time remaining out loud after you get the signal, too.

bobthepanda 3y ago
This is, I believe, an accessibility feature. I prefer the version of it I encountered in Hong Kong; there is a rapid clip of clicks at green, followed by a slower click when flashing red, and then a slow click at red. It's more universal and language-agnostic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnWRQ9yVFYg&t=13s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnWRQ9yVFYg&t=13s The sounds are highly directed so you can't hear, say, the crosswalk perpendicular to you, let alone hear it from surrounding buildings.
- bluGill 3y ago
  > This is, I believe, an accessibility feature. Unless you are deaf, then you get no feedback. There are buttons near me that don't always trigger when I touch them, but I know to listen for the feedback. (these are touch, not push buttons) Of course they are not universal, there are a lot of buttons around me that give no feedback at all.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    The notion that an accessibility feature means it is automatically accessible for 100% of people is asinine. In any case the buttons often vibrate specifically so that deaf people can feel it.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      But accessibility features need to cover all disabilities which often means you have to have more than one.
      - Clamchop 3y ago
        They don't need to cover all disabilities, that's ridiculous. Kinds, severities, and combinations of disabilities are endless. We make a reasonable effort that importantly must make sense for the application. The person you've constructed in this scenario is both blind and deaf. Such an unattended person is in extreme danger on streets with automobile traffic no matter what the crosswalk button does.
        bluGill 3y ago
        No, the person I constructed is only deaf. They attempt to touch a button and do not realize that button did not register their attempt. I agree that not all disabilities can be accounted for. However the more we account for the better - where accounting is all aspects of getting around. I don't know how to make it safe for a blind and deaf person to navigate streets safely - but I wish it was possible and as soon as I learn of something that works I'll support it.
        bobthepanda 3y ago
        A guide dog is literally trained for this. At some point, a disability requires assistance. That is less true these days than in the past but still a last option.
        Clamchop 3y ago
        If they're only deaf, then it's asked and answered because these new buttons have LED indicators and the sound they make can be felt through the housing. The ones near me might as well be knocking.
        avianlyric 3y ago
        There is a simple solution for making these buttons accessible for all, and we have them in the UK. It’s a simple button that clicks, and under the panel there’s a small knob that rotates. Click the button, then place your fingers on the knob and wait for it to start spinning. I can’t tell you if the crossing call button is completely broken (although you’ll figure that out if wait long enough), but broken call buttons in the UK are pretty rare, I’ve only encountered a small handful of broken buttons over 20 years.
    - extraduder_ire 3y ago
      I love the synced vibration/beep feature on crossing buttons, as I made a habit of laying my hand on top of the thing while waiting for the light to change. It gets my attention much faster than hearing/seeing the signals change, since I'm usually looking around during the time I'm waiting. Mostly at the lights for cars, since that hints at when it's my turn to go. (I can see and hear just fine, accessibility features like this are just bonus for me.) I am most used to these ones specifically: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/ECW0FA/pedestrian-crossing-traffic-light-control-button-western-road-cork-ECW0FA.jpg https://c8.alamy.com/comp/ECW0FA/pedestrian-crossing-traffic... Can be activated with your elbow, the thing beeps and the bottom lights up when you activate it.
  - treyd 3y ago
    It's like the swiss cheese security model. You don't have to and can't cater to every possible individual disability in the same happy path as long as you've provided options to allow people with the most common disabilities to use the $thing in some way. People that are simultaneously blind, deaf, wheelchair-bound, and mute are not actually that common and design guidelines aren't written assuming that every disabled person has every disability simultaneously.
    - adhesive_wombat 3y ago
      This is the Internet. If something isn't a 100% bulletproof solution for literally every person, real or hypothetical, in every situation ever, it's worthless and the person who mentioned it is an idiot for even bringing it up.
  - paradox460 3y ago
    I've encountered buttons with a haptic system in them. They are "still" when it is unsafe to cross and there's no call registered, pulse slowly when a call is registered, and buzz when it is safe to cross, regardless of a call being registered or not.
  - strken 3y ago
    I'm not sure about Hong Kong, but the PB/5[0] has tactile feedback in addition to audio. You can put your hand on it and feel the clicks. Slow clicks help deaf users locate the button; fast clicks mean it's safe to cross; silence means you shouldn't enter the crossing because there's not enough time left. [0] See https://theconversation.com/sublime-design-the-pb-5-pedestrian-button-26232 https://theconversation.com/sublime-design-the-pb-5-pedestri...: I have a possibly excessive national pride in how good a button it is
    - rmccue 3y ago
      They’re almost perfect, but from what I’ve observed, there are two variants: one where the button sticks out, and another where the button is surrounded by a lip. I absolutely detest the lip variant. It makes it impossible to slap the button with an open palm, requiring an actual push instead. Particularly with the pandemic, they were near impossible to activate with an elbow. So close to perfection and yet so far… That said I now have to deal with the terrible British ones, and the attached signals that are supposedly safer - they’re on the same device as the button, supposedly forcing you to look at them and face the traffic. In practise, the inconsistency of whether there’s a crossing indicator on the other side of the road or not means I rely solely on sound cues. If everyone can just adopt the PB/5, even with the atrocious lip, the world will be a better place.
- deadso 3y ago
  This is also the case in many parts of the US. I've experienced this in WA and MN.
- Clamchop 3y ago
  The crosswalks near me (San Diego) both speak English and make "whimpers" and clicks. They whimper while waiting or when it's time to clear the intersection, and then rapidly and loudly click when it's time to walk. At the same time and in English, they say "wait" repeatedly until the signal changes, then "crosswalk is on across such-and-such street".
madeofpalk 3y ago
Oh god - the fright I had in my first day in LA after I pressed the crosswalk button to cross a 6 lane road and it shouted WAIT at me. I will never forget that.
teeray 3y ago
And if you keep pressing it, you can DJ while you wait: WAIT…WAIT… WAI-WA-WAITWAITWAIT… …CROSS SIGNAL IS ON… BEEP… BEEP… BEEP… BEEP
- chatmasta 3y ago
  Maybe you were referencing this and I'm just behind the times, but I read your comment and thought "surely someone has done this before..." And indeed, here's a remix of the "wait" sound (it's not the only one, either - apparently remixing crosswalk noises is a whole subgenre of house music): https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/309098764&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true# https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundclou...

by gs17 3y ago

bobthepanda 3y ago

This is, I believe, an accessibility feature. I prefer the version of it I encountered in Hong Kong; there is a rapid clip of clicks at green, followed by a slower click when flashing red, and then a slow click at red. It's more universal and language-agnostic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnWRQ9yVFYg&t=13s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnWRQ9yVFYg&t=13s The sounds are highly directed so you can't hear, say, the crosswalk perpendicular to you, let alone hear it from surrounding buildings.

bluGill 3y ago
> This is, I believe, an accessibility feature. Unless you are deaf, then you get no feedback. There are buttons near me that don't always trigger when I touch them, but I know to listen for the feedback. (these are touch, not push buttons) Of course they are not universal, there are a lot of buttons around me that give no feedback at all.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  The notion that an accessibility feature means it is automatically accessible for 100% of people is asinine. In any case the buttons often vibrate specifically so that deaf people can feel it.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    But accessibility features need to cover all disabilities which often means you have to have more than one.
    - Clamchop 3y ago
      They don't need to cover all disabilities, that's ridiculous. Kinds, severities, and combinations of disabilities are endless. We make a reasonable effort that importantly must make sense for the application. The person you've constructed in this scenario is both blind and deaf. Such an unattended person is in extreme danger on streets with automobile traffic no matter what the crosswalk button does.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        No, the person I constructed is only deaf. They attempt to touch a button and do not realize that button did not register their attempt. I agree that not all disabilities can be accounted for. However the more we account for the better - where accounting is all aspects of getting around. I don't know how to make it safe for a blind and deaf person to navigate streets safely - but I wish it was possible and as soon as I learn of something that works I'll support it.
        bobthepanda 3y ago
        A guide dog is literally trained for this. At some point, a disability requires assistance. That is less true these days than in the past but still a last option.
        Clamchop 3y ago
        If they're only deaf, then it's asked and answered because these new buttons have LED indicators and the sound they make can be felt through the housing. The ones near me might as well be knocking.
        avianlyric 3y ago
        There is a simple solution for making these buttons accessible for all, and we have them in the UK. It’s a simple button that clicks, and under the panel there’s a small knob that rotates. Click the button, then place your fingers on the knob and wait for it to start spinning. I can’t tell you if the crossing call button is completely broken (although you’ll figure that out if wait long enough), but broken call buttons in the UK are pretty rare, I’ve only encountered a small handful of broken buttons over 20 years.
  - extraduder_ire 3y ago
    I love the synced vibration/beep feature on crossing buttons, as I made a habit of laying my hand on top of the thing while waiting for the light to change. It gets my attention much faster than hearing/seeing the signals change, since I'm usually looking around during the time I'm waiting. Mostly at the lights for cars, since that hints at when it's my turn to go. (I can see and hear just fine, accessibility features like this are just bonus for me.) I am most used to these ones specifically: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/ECW0FA/pedestrian-crossing-traffic-light-control-button-western-road-cork-ECW0FA.jpg https://c8.alamy.com/comp/ECW0FA/pedestrian-crossing-traffic... Can be activated with your elbow, the thing beeps and the bottom lights up when you activate it.
- treyd 3y ago
  It's like the swiss cheese security model. You don't have to and can't cater to every possible individual disability in the same happy path as long as you've provided options to allow people with the most common disabilities to use the $thing in some way. People that are simultaneously blind, deaf, wheelchair-bound, and mute are not actually that common and design guidelines aren't written assuming that every disabled person has every disability simultaneously.
  - adhesive_wombat 3y ago
    This is the Internet. If something isn't a 100% bulletproof solution for literally every person, real or hypothetical, in every situation ever, it's worthless and the person who mentioned it is an idiot for even bringing it up.
- paradox460 3y ago
  I've encountered buttons with a haptic system in them. They are "still" when it is unsafe to cross and there's no call registered, pulse slowly when a call is registered, and buzz when it is safe to cross, regardless of a call being registered or not.
- strken 3y ago
  I'm not sure about Hong Kong, but the PB/5[0] has tactile feedback in addition to audio. You can put your hand on it and feel the clicks. Slow clicks help deaf users locate the button; fast clicks mean it's safe to cross; silence means you shouldn't enter the crossing because there's not enough time left. [0] See https://theconversation.com/sublime-design-the-pb-5-pedestrian-button-26232 https://theconversation.com/sublime-design-the-pb-5-pedestri...: I have a possibly excessive national pride in how good a button it is
  - rmccue 3y ago
    They’re almost perfect, but from what I’ve observed, there are two variants: one where the button sticks out, and another where the button is surrounded by a lip. I absolutely detest the lip variant. It makes it impossible to slap the button with an open palm, requiring an actual push instead. Particularly with the pandemic, they were near impossible to activate with an elbow. So close to perfection and yet so far… That said I now have to deal with the terrible British ones, and the attached signals that are supposedly safer - they’re on the same device as the button, supposedly forcing you to look at them and face the traffic. In practise, the inconsistency of whether there’s a crossing indicator on the other side of the road or not means I rely solely on sound cues. If everyone can just adopt the PB/5, even with the atrocious lip, the world will be a better place.
deadso 3y ago
This is also the case in many parts of the US. I've experienced this in WA and MN.
Clamchop 3y ago
The crosswalks near me (San Diego) both speak English and make "whimpers" and clicks. They whimper while waiting or when it's time to clear the intersection, and then rapidly and loudly click when it's time to walk. At the same time and in English, they say "wait" repeatedly until the signal changes, then "crosswalk is on across such-and-such street".

madeofpalk 3y ago

Oh god - the fright I had in my first day in LA after I pressed the crosswalk button to cross a 6 lane road and it shouted WAIT at me. I will never forget that.

teeray 3y ago

And if you keep pressing it, you can DJ while you wait: WAIT…WAIT… WAI-WA-WAITWAITWAIT… …CROSS SIGNAL IS ON… BEEP… BEEP… BEEP… BEEP

chatmasta 3y ago
Maybe you were referencing this and I'm just behind the times, but I read your comment and thought "surely someone has done this before..." And indeed, here's a remix of the "wait" sound (it's not the only one, either - apparently remixing crosswalk noises is a whole subgenre of house music): https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/309098764&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true# https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundclou...